1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Are Codes created by random processes or intelligence?

Discussion in 'Evolution Vs. Creationism' started by Man of Faith, Feb 17, 2010.

  1. Half Asleep

    Half Asleep Crazy-go-nuts

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2008
    Messages:
    62
    Ratings:
    +6
    Prove it. Prove Adam and Eve, prove sin, prove talking snakes. . . Prove GOD for that matter.

    Oh, you don't have hundreds of years of research and documented evidence to back you up like Biochemists do?
     
  2. Gabethewiking

    Gabethewiking Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2010
    Messages:
    944
    Ratings:
    +34
    This is Man of Faith... He does not have to prove anything.
     
  3. Mr Cheese

    Mr Cheese Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2007
    Messages:
    6,579
    Ratings:
    +399
    :facepalm:
     
  4. Mr Cheese

    Mr Cheese Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2007
    Messages:
    6,579
    Ratings:
    +399
    I'm not sure whether to laugh or cry at this statement

    [​IMG]
     
  5. angellous_evangellous

    Ratings:
    +0
    #45 angellous_evangellous, Feb 18, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 18, 2010
  6. Mr Cheese

    Mr Cheese Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2007
    Messages:
    6,579
    Ratings:
    +399
    It was created by the undertoad
     
  7. tumbleweed41

    tumbleweed41 Resident Liberal Hippie

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2009
    Messages:
    20,463
    Ratings:
    +1,335
    MoF is attempting to resurrect the failed Perry Marshall "Find me a language that does not come from the mind" argument.
    Once again demonstrating an appalling lack of knowledge of basic biology.
    If you can read this, I can prove God Exists
    :facepalm:
     
  8. Kilgore Trout

    Kilgore Trout Misanthropic Humanist

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2009
    Messages:
    26,685
    Ratings:
    +9,144
    If one cannot understand the concept of emergence, many things are simply beyond their understanding.
     
  9. Alceste

    Alceste Vagabond

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2008
    Messages:
    26,030
    Ratings:
    +2,886
    Do hand tools fly?

    Think about it: Float plane, biplane, jet plane, airplane - all these are types of planes. There is also a hand tool for smoothing wood called a plane. It makes no sense that all planes fly except for the ones that are hand tools. So therefore carpenters planes must fly, even though nobody has ever witnessed this. I velcroed all mine to the work bench when I came to this life changing realization.
     
  10. dust1n

    dust1n Zindīq

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2007
    Messages:
    20,433
    Ratings:
    +4,740
    Religion:
    Post-Anarchism Austin, TX
    Snowflakes only appear to be random, they formed individually due to their unique set of circumstances. Atmospheric properties aren't random either, or we would just 'randomly' get snow in Mexico. There is a an effect of circumstances, and it's based on position, currents, sea levels, atmosphere, etc/etc/etc/.
     
  11. SkinnyCheruscian

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2010
    Messages:
    31
    Ratings:
    +4
    The problem is not the genetic code but the whole machinery of the cell. The genetic code could look different, but would then still work. But it needs the whole cellular context to make any sense. However simple one imagines an ancestral cell, this needs a myriad of processes linked into circles.

    This is a difficult problem to explain: It is obviously improbable to have occurred by chance, but how improbable exactly? A similar, but simpler problem is protein folding. Rupert Sheldrake claimed this could not be explained by science, there were too many incorrect ways to fold a protein to achieve the correct one. He postulated "morphogenetci fields" in some type of matter-free ether. However he was wrong - science can today explain that.

    The origin of the whole genetic machinery is difficult to explain, as it is shared among all life on the planet, suggesting it appeared once to stay and did not evolve stepwise.

    Western Science is entirely materialistic. It therefore has to look for a materialistic explanation, else it would not be science. Postulating a manipulative higher entity behind phenomena science cannot entirely explain is not a scientific explanation. And the fact that scientific knowledge has limits is not the proof for higher entities.
     
  12. painted wolf

    painted wolf Grey Muzzle

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2004
    Messages:
    15,370
    Ratings:
    +1,652
    Actually experiments have shown that genomic molecules like RNA can self replicate without cellular machinery.

    wa:do
     
  13. Kerr

    Kerr Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2009
    Messages:
    6,630
    Ratings:
    +349
    It is created by a natural process, not a random process.
     
  14. Kerr

    Kerr Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2009
    Messages:
    6,630
    Ratings:
    +349
    We can´t predict it because we don´t know everything about it and do not keep track of all the factors involved. They do however work according to deterministic laws.
     
  15. gnostic

    gnostic The Lost One

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2006
    Messages:
    15,534
    Ratings:
    +3,692
    Religion:
    Pi π
    The processes, may seem (and I must stressed out the word "seem") random at time, but all genetic are still natural processes.

    Here is an example.

    Let just say a person had green eyes in the family, but no one else has green eyes in his immediate family. Mother, father, brothers and sisters, uncles, aunts, grandparents, all had brown eyes.

    Then it was discovered that one of the great-grandparent back 5 generation had married someone with green eyes.

    All descendants may all have the same genes as this green-eyed ancestors, but the probability was higher for descendants to have brown eyes instead. But for that one descendant, the gene was that he would have green eyes from entire clan of brown eyes, is far from unnatural.

    Now the questions to you is this:

    1. Do you think it was some gods or the so-called "intelligent designer" gave this boy's green eyes? (Supernatural process)
    2. Or does it have something to with the dormant genes from a single ancestor back 5 generation? (Natural process)
    Which process was the cause of the boy having green eyes, MoF?

    God or some other intelligent designer? Or genetics?

    Sorry, MoF, but I would have to go for natural process, which you have labelled as being random. Highly unlikely that this "intelligent being" was involved. Genetics doesn't require a Goddidit "intelligent" being, to explain that genes can skip generations, and give one person green eyes.
     
Loading...