Are Catholics Christians?

[simguy83]

Here are some websites that I found:

http://www.carm.org/catholic/saved.htm

http://www.born-again-christian.info/catholics.htm

http://www.justforcatholics.org/a21.htm

"If a Roman Catholic believes in the official Roman Catholic teaching on salvation, then he is not a Christian since the official RCC position is contrary to scripture. Therefore, as a whole, Roman Catholics need to be evangelized. They need to hear the true Gospel. They need to hear that they are not made right before God by being in a church, or by being baptized, but by receiving Christ (John 1:12), believing that Jesus has risen from the dead (Rom. 10:9), and that justification is by faith (Rom. 5:1) and not by our deeds (Rom. 4:5)."

One more quote:

"We are forced to conclude that the message of Rome is a different gospel. It is a false gospel. I say this with much sadness and concern for the multitudes of Catholics who blindly follow this false system. I must warn every Catholic that Christ is of no avail to you unless you relinquish any confidence in yourself and your works, and in every other creature. Faith must be in Christ - alone!
Having said that, I gladly add the following. There may be some nominal Catholics who, either out of ignorance or rejection of Catholic doctrine, truly trust in Christ alone for their salvation. They are Christians and really belong to God."

If you want more information on the quotes above - check the webistes at the top of this post!

 

[The Voice of Reason]

Here are some websites that I found:

http://www.carm.org/catholic/saved.htm

If you want more information on the quotes above - check the webistes at the top of this post!

Well, I went to the web site listed above. I was very impressed. I'd say this is as fine an example of "poisoning the well" as I have seen in a long time. At least the people that wrote it are open minded and willing to discuss the issues with believers of the other faiths :sarcastic . Makes me glad I'm an Agnostic. I think ours was the only group left out of the attacks.


One thing about it simguy - you should get more than a few good replies from this one. I think I'll sit back and watch the fur fly now. When SOG and a few others get into this, it'll be a real show.


TVOR

 

[Mr Spinkles]

The Catholic Church WAS Christianity for 1500 years before the "Reformation".

Oh because the Orthodox Church doesn't "count" right Scott? Typical Catholic....always trying to sweep the great schism under the rug.

 

[The Voice of Reason]

Hey Sprinkles - I changed my avatar back - you were right in the other thread - I wasn't doing justice to Gahndi.

TVOR

 

[linwood]

There were also the gnostics, but the gnostics were probably the first organized christians.

You really don`t want to get into this with him...really.

I mean it.

Really..Really.

 

[Scott1]

Oh because the Orthodox Church doesn't "count" right Scott? Typical Catholic....always trying to sweep the great schism under the rug.

Funny, funny guy..... The Orthodox Church did not change the faith.... they rejected the Papacy.... but ok, the Catholic Church was Christianity for 1000 years before the "great schism".... better?

 

[Scott1]

Alright Catholics. Where are ya? This is easy stuff, I would like to see some of our new members handle these easy questions.... I'll wait and see.

My prayers to you!
Scott

 

[seraphimfire]

The term "christian" was coined by the world to define a follower of Christ. Constantine used the label so he could put us in little areas of his cities along with all the other religious movements of the time to keep an eye on all of us! Anyway I heard that the Pope has even given "christian" status to the Jews! I don't want to be called a "christian" since the term has been used so librally and losely these past 2 milleniums!
The small groups that the Roman Catholic church has called "heritics" over the last 2000 years are more Christ Followers then any movement calling itself "christian"!
I don't recognize any movment ruled by man as the true fellowship of the Living Christ!
It has been said by someone on this thread that we are all ministers and that my friends is the TRUTH! But who can handle the truth????
Peace

 

[Scott1]

Anyway I heard that the Pope has even given "christian" status to the Jews!

The ignorance of that statement is staggering........ :bonk:

 

[simguy83]

I found some more stuff. Boy am I going to get it in the neck :bonk:

Didn't Christianity consist of the Catholic Church for the first 1500 years?
http://www.chick.com/information/religions/catholicism/#Church

The Trail Of Blood
http://users.aol.com/libcfl/trail.htm

I also found this to be an interesting read:
http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0071/0071_01.asp

P.s, if you think I am anti-catholic, then don't because I am not! I just saw the non-catholics getting their butts kicked so I thought I would help them out

If you want more, then I got it dont worry

 

[Gunga_ann]

Catholics are Christians. We believe in Jesus Christ, God's only Son. Frankly, I don't understand why, or how, people can say we are not Christians.

About who was the first Christian, well, I think it was anyone who believed in the word of Jesus, his followers, like the Apostles. I am taking a class through my Diocese about Christology. My professor (The smartest priest I know) was talkin about early Christians. They were everywhere around Rome and Isrel. Catholic means "Universal." Everywhere. Also, if you want to take a Biblical twist on it: Matt. 16:16-19 "Simon Peter replied, 'You are the Christ, the Son of the Living God.' And Jesus answered him, 'Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona! For flesh and blood had not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven. And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

 

[simguy83]

Here is a couple of quotes from one of the sites I posted:

"Around 1563, the catholic church created horrible laws at the Council of Trent that made it a death sentence for anyone who said the bread and wine used in their holy communion were only symbolic..."

"When Helen takes the wafer god during holy communion, she must believe she is eating the creator of the universe... Note, if "God" were to drop by accident, the communion paten will catch him"

etc etc..

 

[Gunga_ann]

"When Helen takes the wafer god during holy communion, she must believe she is eating the creator of the universe... Note, if "God" were to drop by accident, the communion paten will catch him"

etc etc..

What do you mean she must? If Helen is Catholic, she does believe she is consuming the Body and Blood of Christ. That is what Catholics believe. That is our faith. The Pope (I love that man) declared this year as the Year of the Eucharist, by the way. Jesus tells us during the Last Supper, "This is My Body...This is My Blood...Take and Eat...Take and Drink." How can someone say that it is only a symbol? It is an awesome experience to be in Christ's presence in the Eucharist. Christ is physically running through me. He is inside me. It is... unexplainable.

 

[Dave]

Anything from sites like chick.com regarding Catholicism is almost certainly a lie. And those quotes ... the Catholic Church never sentenced anyone to death for believing that Holy Communion was symbolic. What she did, however, do is excommunicate anyone who denied the Real Presence.

Also, calling Holy Communion "the wafer god" is highly insulting. We don't worship wafers; we worship Jesus who has taken the form of a wafer. Thus, after the consecration, while it still looks, smells, feels, and tastes like a wafer, it's no longer a wafer but Jesus.

 

[Ardhanariswar]

and so you eat them? alright.... i really think its a symbol of jesus and the last supper. to say jesus is actually the flesh seems a little cannabalistic. rather, i think jesus mean his spiritual presense, and ones intake of the spiritual jesus in communion. thats what communion is, joining with the spirit.

 

[The Voice of Reason]

The ignorance of that statement is staggering........ :bonk:

SOG-
Just when you think you have seen the absolute dumbest thing you will ever see...
Just when you think no body can scrape any lower in the barrell...
Just when you think the filter in the gene pool is starting to work...

A new low, truly a new low.

TVOR

 

[Gunga_ann]

Also, calling Holy Communion "the wafer god" is highly insulting. We don't worship wafers; we worship Jesus who has taken the form of a wafer. Thus, after the consecration, while it still looks, smells, feels, and tastes like a wafer, it's no longer a wafer but Jesus.

Amen about the "the wafer god" remark. It is insulting.

Transubstantiation

Thats a big word. But, what is means is baically what Dave was saying. The Wafer may look, smell, feel and taste like a wafer, it has been changed into the Body of Christ. From the Catichism:
The Catholic Church, at the Council of Trent, summarized transubstantiation "by declaring: "Because Christ our Redeemer said that it was truly his body that he was offering under the species of bread, it has always been the conviction of the Church of God, and this holy Council now declares again, that by the consecration of the bread and wine there takes place a change of the whole substance of the bread into the substance of the body of Christ our Lord and of the whole substance of the wine into the substance of his blood. This change the holy Catholic Church has fittingly and properly called transubstantiation." - CCC 1376
The Eucharistic presence of Christ begins at the moment of the consecration and endures as long as the Eucharistic species subsist. Christ is present whole and entire in each of the species and whole and entire in each of their parts, in such a way that the breaking of the bread does not divide Christ. - CCC 1377

In other words, it has the physically tendincys of a wafer, but what we get from it has changed. We don't get a wafer any more, we get Christ. It is confusing, if you don't understand it or if you have just first thought about it. I hope this helped.

 

[Gunga_ann]

Also, calling Holy Communion "the wafer god" is highly insulting. We don't worship wafers; we worship Jesus who has taken the form of a wafer. Thus, after the consecration, while it still looks, smells, feels, and tastes like a wafer, it's no longer a wafer but Jesus.

Amen about the "the wafer god" remark. It is insulting.



Transubstantiation



That’s a big word. But, what is means is basically what Dave was saying. The Wafer may look, smell, feel and taste like a wafer, it has been changed into the Body of Christ. From the Catechism:

The Catholic Church, at the Council of Trent, summarized transubstantiation "by declaring: "Because Christ our Redeemer said that it was truly his body that he was offering under the species of bread, it has always been the conviction of the Church of God, and this holy Council now declares again, that by the consecration of the bread and wine there takes place a change of the whole substance of the bread into the substance of the body of Christ our Lord and of the whole substance of the wine into the substance of his blood. This change the holy Catholic Church has fittingly and properly called transubstantiation." - CCC 1376

The Eucharistic presence of Christ begins at the moment of the consecration and endures as long as the Eucharistic species subsist. Christ is present whole and entire in each of the species and whole and entire in each of their parts, in such a way that the breaking of the bread does not divide Christ. - CCC 1377



In other words, it has the physically tendency of a wafer, but what we get from it has changed. We don't get a wafer any more, we get Christ. It is confusing, if you don't understand it or if you have just first thought about it. I hope this helped.

 

[Gunga_ann]

Sorry about the double post!

 

[simguy83]

Jesus tells us during the Last Supper, "This is My Body...This is My Blood...Take and Eat...Take and Drink." How can someone say that it is only a symbol?

He also says do this in rememberance of me. How can you not take this as symbolic?