Are Buddhist and Hindu Scriptures Inaccurate?

[loverofhumanity]

Do you think Maitreya is God? I dont understand what you mean by there is no acknowledgement and he didn't discuss innate knowledge.

I meant that Baha’u’llah was not educated but possessed innate knowledge. Those who have studied His Life are aware and acknowledge He was not educated.

“He will thoroughly know by his own super-knowledge” = innate knowledge - not taught but of his own super-knowledge.

I do not believe that either Maitreya or Baha’u’llah are God.

 

[loverofhumanity]

The thing about innate knowledge is that it has to be a completely different discussion.

And about you saying that in the 1st century BC at the time of Wallagamba they calculated units of time differently, then you have to provide some kind of evidence for it.

I don’t see why because it ties up with the description Buddha gave of Maitreya, tyat He would both possess innate knowledge as well as establish His own religion, both requirements which Baha’u’llah has fulfilled.

According to the Digha-Nikaya II 2 “ in the time of the first Buddha Vippasi, who made his appearance 91 Kappas ago, the length of a human life was 80,000 years”.......

That calculation 91 Kappas ago, we have no way of comparing that to the way we calculate today. The numbers are irrelevant as they are attributable to another Kappa than our own when the first Buddha appeared, which apparently used different methods of calculating time.


It’s the same with currency. US$1,000 = Burmese Kyats 1 million. But in reality it’s a small figure relevant to other currencies. You cannot apply the 80,000 years mentioned across the board universally as we reckon time with different values. So 80,000 years in that age may very well be the equivalent of 80 years in our terminology.

Only from Buddha’s lifetime can we be sure of time as He indicated that after women entered the Samgha, His Dispensation would be halved from 5,000 years to 2,500 and that’s all there in writing, that there will be five disappearances 5x 500 years then Maitreya will appear.

 

[loverofhumanity]

The thing about innate knowledge is that it has to be a completely different discussion.

And about you saying that in the 1st century BC at the time of Wallagamba they calculated units of time differently, then you have to provide some kind of evidence for it.

Just one thing fire dragon. Whether we agree or not, I respect your views and I’m trying to learn from you as well, so I value what you share. It’s just friendly discussion, nothing confrontational. You have your own beliefs and you should stick with them.

Having looked into the major religions though, there is a strong case, I believe, that they all await a Promised One.

Buddhists - Maitreya, AmitAbha (Pure Land)
Hinduism (some sects not all) - Kalki Avatar
Zoroastrian Faith - Shah Bahram
Judaism - Lord of Hosts, King of Glory
Christianity - second coming
Islam - 12th Imam

 

[firedragon]

I don’t see why because it ties up with the description Buddha gave of Maitreya, tyat He would both possess innate knowledge as well as establish His own religion, both requirements which Baha’u’llah has fulfilled.

According to the Digha-Nikaya II 2 “ in the time of the first Buddha Vippasi, who made his appearance 91 Kappas ago, the length of a human life was 80,000 years”.......

That calculation 91 Kappas ago, we have no way of comparing that to the way we calculate today. The numbers are irrelevant as they are attributable to another Kappa than our own when the first Buddha appeared, which apparently used different methods of calculating time.


It’s the same with currency. US$1,000 = Burmese Kyats 1 million. But in reality it’s a small figure relevant to other currencies. You cannot apply the 80,000 years mentioned across the board universally as we reckon time with different values. So 80,000 years in that age may very well be the equivalent of 80 years in our terminology.

Only from Buddha’s lifetime can we be sure of time as He indicated that after women entered the Samgha, His Dispensation would be halved from 5,000 years to 2,500 and that’s all there in writing, that there will be five disappearances 5x 500 years then Maitreya will appear.

Thats not relevant. Because the Chakkavatti Sutta episode of Metteya is a future event. And its written in the 1st century BC. Thus, they calculated based on their perception of time, not the perception of so many kalpas in the past. Be aware that the Buddha is supposed to have been through Kalpa Laksha, a 100000 kalpas. Thus the book that is written in recent times would call a day a day, a year a year in the understanding of their time, not the understanding of a million years ago.

 

[firedragon]

Just one thing fire dragon. Whether we agree or not, I respect your views and I’m trying to learn from you as well, so I value what you share. It’s just friendly discussion, nothing confrontational. You have your own beliefs and you should stick with them.

Having looked into the major religions though, there is a strong case, I believe, that they all await a Promised One.

Buddhists - Maitreya, AmitAbha (Pure Land)
Hinduism (some sects not all) - Kalki Avatar
Zoroastrian Faith - Shah Bahram
Judaism - Lord of Hosts, King of Glory
Christianity - second coming
Islam - 12th Imam

I dont know much about the Zoroastrian scripture, and my knowledge in Hindu scripture is very limited. Judaism is just too vast for me to claim much. Well, in that case even Buddhism is too vast. On that route, all religions you have pointed out are way too vast to claim some kind of standard.

Thats why, very specific information and references are needed.

Nevertheless, I do respect your manner of discourse. So lets have a Dheega Nikaya. A long discourse.

You see LOH, you have made the statement that 80,000 as a life time was a long time ago and their perception of years was different. But you see, it also says that the life time has come down to 100 years. So did they think 100 years was also some kind of cosmic illusion to another type of time? How about the reduction of the lifespan to "10 year"? And reaching sexual maturity at the age of "5"? Compared to 80,000 lifespan which you say they calculated differently, 5 must be a few seconds, and the born will be dead as soon as they are.

It clearly explains that people who had 50,000 years of life span will go down to 2,500 and so on and so on. Pancha vasasa sahasasa sasaayukesu. (My English transliteration is bad). Pancha vasasathaayukanan, attathevyava sasathayukesu. The eventually it goes down to dasavasasayukesu. 10 years.

It keeps going down.

I am trying to belittle your theory brother, but if you just read this simple Sutta, your theory is completely unfounded. It seems like whoever gave this theory to you has not read the full Sutta. In fact, most of the Buddhist scholars have not read the full text. But when someone needs to analyse a part of it, one has to do it thoroughly. But was not done.

Peace.

 

[Marcion]

God doesn't hurt people. Our sin has consequences.

Would you stop loving your child if it made a very big mistake or even would you punish it very harshly for a prolonged time?

Severe negative karma can lead to long sufferings but it can never last an eternity and during life (or a next life ) there are always opportunities to make up for bad karma.
If a human reincarnation of Hitler would be able to come up with a definite cure for cancer, his suffering could be much reduced or even over.

 

[firedragon]

Would you stop loving your child if it made a very big mistake or even would you punish it very harshly for a prolonged time?

Severe negative karma can lead to long sufferings but it can never last an eternity and during life (or a next life ) there are always opportunities to make up for bad karma.
If a human reincarnation of Hitler would be able to come up with a definite cure for cancer, his suffering could be much reduced or even over.

Or maybe in one life he would attain nirvana. Done.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Thats not relevant. Because the Chakkavatti Sutta episode of Metteya is a future event. And its written in the 1st century BC. Thus, they calculated based on their perception of time, not the perception of so many kalpas in the past. Be aware that the Buddha is supposed to have been through Kalpa Laksha, a 100000 kalpas. Thus the book that is written in recent times would call a day a day, a year a year in the understanding of their time, not the understanding of a million years ago.

That’s exactly correct and the Buddha states that the Five Disappearances would last 500 yrs each after which Maitreya is to appear within 2,500 years.

But there is the criteria that He will possess innate knowledge and establish a new religion. That’s what He states in the text.

 

[firedragon]

That’s exactly correct and the Buddha states that the Five Disappearances would last 500 yrs each after which Maitreya is to appear within 2,500 years.

But there is the criteria that He will possess innate knowledge and establish a new religion. That’s what He states in the text.

Okay. You said that 80000 could be 80.

How much is 250? Divided by thousand?

hope you understand the question.

 

[Skywalker]

I meant that Baha’u’llah was not educated but possessed innate knowledge. Those who have studied His Life are aware and acknowledge He was not educated.

“He will thoroughly know by his own super-knowledge” = innate knowledge - not taught but of his own super-knowledge.

I do not believe that either Maitreya or Baha’u’llah are God.

Where do you think he got that innate knowledge from? Do you believe he was a prophet?

 

[Skywalker]

Would you stop loving your child if it made a very big mistake or even would you punish it very harshly for a prolonged time?

Severe negative karma can lead to long sufferings but it can never last an eternity and during life (or a next life ) there are always opportunities to make up for bad karma.
If a human reincarnation of Hitler would be able to come up with a definite cure for cancer, his suffering could be much reduced or even over.

If I was a judge and my child committed a crime I would have to punish him. God gives us a lifetime to seek and turn to Him. If a criminal bribed a just judge with their good deeds they would still be punished.

 

[Marcion]

If I was a judge and my child committed a crime I would have to punish him. God gives us a lifetime to seek and turn to Him. If a criminal bribed a just judge with their good deeds they would still be punished.

So you would send your child to enternal hell or into the fire to burn? Just asking.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Where do you think he got that innate knowledge from? Do you believe he was a prophet?

I believe He was a Divine Messenger Who received a revelation from God. His Writings are not that of an ordinary man.

 

[Skywalker]

I believe He was a Divine Messenger Who received a revelation from God. His Writings are not that of an ordinary man.

What do you think is divine about his writings?

 

[loverofhumanity]

Okay. You said that 80000 could be 80.

How much is 250? Divided by thousand?

hope you understand the question.

So you will never accept any future Buddha unless people live to 80,000 years? I don’t believe that is referring to earthly years as we know them.

Literally science debunks such an assertion as it has proven the human body cannot live so long.

The Bible has similar statements which, if interpreted literally, can easily be debunked by science and reason such as the seven days of creation. Science has proven the earth to be over 4 billion years old. There are spiritual connotations in Genesis which most have not grasped.

 

[loverofhumanity]

What do you think is divine about his writings?

I believe that His Words are the creative Word of God. God says ‘Be’ and it ‘is’. Whatever Baha’u’llah has spoken or written has brought into existence arts, sciences and technologies that better humankind.

All the wonderful achievements humanity has achieved which unite are a direct result of His Creative Words.

PS: Baha’u’llah is NOT God but considered by Baha’is to be the Promised One of all religions which people have awaited for centuries.

 

[Skywalker]

I believe that His Words are the creative Word of God. God says ‘Be’ and it ‘is’. Whatever Baha’u’llah has spoken or written has brought into existence arts, sciences and technologies that better humankind.

All the wonderful achievements humanity has achieved which unite are a direct result of His Creative Words.

Arts science and technology doesn't mean that his teachings are of God. God is creative but arts doesn't mean that someone is a prophet.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Arts science and technology doesn't mean that his teachings are of God. God is creative but arts doesn't mean that someone is a prophet.

The Creative Word, I believe, is the cause and impetus of all existence. Without it you and I could not be. The Word is manifest in this world as a Being Who appears from time to time and represents God and speaks on His behalf in this world. Whatever He says will come to pass and is endowed with a potency we cannot fathom that can change and transform both us and civilisation.

That is why no matter hopeless things may seem, tye Word can transmute it all into joy and happiness such is its power to transform and recreate.

 

[Skywalker]

The Creative Word, I believe, is the cause and impetus of all existence. Without it you and I could not be. The Word is manifest in this world as a Being Who appears from time to time and represents God and speaks on His behalf in this world. Whatever He says will come to pass and is endowed with a potency we cannot fathom that can change and transform both us and civilisation.

That is why no matter hopeless things may seem, tye Word can transmute it all into joy and happiness such is its power to transform and recreate.

Do you think that the Creative word has to do with the Genesis verse that says let there be light?

 

[loverofhumanity]

Do you think that the Creative word has to do with the Genesis verse that says let there be light?

My understanding is that Holy Scriptures are primarily spiritual Books with terms like light often referring to knowledge, love or faith. So for instance, the light of knowledge can illuminate the whole world. So just as the physical sun illuminates the world, the light of the love and knowledge of God can enlighten the souls of men.

Due to very low spiritual aptitude in this day, this has led to many such priceless gems yet to be discovered in the depths of scriptures, with most stuck with literal and physical interpretations, a reflection of the materialistic mindset we have come to inherit in this age.

So Genesis refers as much to the light of the knowledge of God as it would just physical light for without one we would be physically blind and without the other, spiritually blind, but more preferable to not be spiritually blind I would think as that affects the souls progress in the next life, whereas physical blindness is only confined to this life.