Are Black Holes Even Holes?

[EiNsTeiN]

This I'm having a little bit more trouble with, though. I suppose I don't understand how something can even have an infinite mass. Isn't mass defined by how many atoms something has?

Singularity is not something...

When a huge star cools down, it collapses till all of its volume becomes just in a single point (the singularity)...this point has no dimensions, thus its volume is zero...and from the conservation mass law, we know that the stars mass can never be wasted in nothing, thus this point has the mass of all the star in it..

Isn't mass defined by how many atoms something has?

Note that the new defintion of gravity oppose this

 

[zombieharlot]

...we know that the stars mass can never be wasted in nothing, thus this point has the mass of all the star in it..

I thought that because a star's mass could never be wasted in nothing that it became a super nova, which seems quite contrary to existing at a single point.

Note that the new defintion of gravity oppose this

Why isn't this new definition taught on at least a basic level in schools?

 

[standing_on_one_foot]

Ah, relativity, my old nemesis...

Anyhoo, of course a blackhole isn't really a hole, nor is it even some sort of vacuum, any more than, say, a large star of equal mass would be. Things can orbit around black holes, for example. It's only when you get close enough that the whole messy inescapability thing kicks in. But "black hole" sounds really cool and gets the general idea across.

I'm a little unsure as to whether it is in fact a dimensionless singularity, or simply extremely dense...I'll have to look that up. I could believe it, I just don't know enough at the moment to reach any sort of conclusion.

 

[standing_on_one_foot]

Why isn't this new definition taught on at least a basic level in schools?

It was where I went. Or at least touched upon, since general relativity is a fairly complex idea. But my high school physics class did talk a little about space time curvature. It's just not necessary for understanding Newtonian physics, which is what is generally taught.

One difficulty with the idea that mass is just the number of atoms is that different atoms have different masses...and relativity changes mass and inertia and all that.

However, I am quite sure that black holes do not have infinite mass. Especially since we distinguish between different types based on their mass. You can calculate the event horizon, but you need to know the mass to do that. If they are are indeed singularities, they would then have infinite density (anything divided by zero will give you infinity, except zero, I suppose, but that's a strange case), but infinite mass does not follow from that. The black hole can only have as much mass as it takes in, I should think. Otherwise you'd be violating all sorts of laws.

 

[EiNsTeiN]

Hi standing_on_one_foot...I admire all physics lovers

I thought that because a star's mass could never be wasted in nothing that it became a super nova, which seems quite contrary to existing at a single point.

Actually, not all the stars become black holes or supernova...our sun will not be any of those...
It depends on the size of the star, some stars reaches the supernova stage, and remains supernova...others may change from supernova to black holes...but this requires a very huge star (9 times our sun)..

I hope this picture makes imagining the space-time easier for you

Actually, in the basic learning in school, we never approuched to this topic, may be we did on high school..

The most common theory about blackholes is that they have singularities in their middle, which has all the mass and the infinite density..

If you are far enough, you can just rotate arround a black hole instead of being swallowed by it....You need to be very lucky though..

 

[zombieharlot]

If you are far enough, you can just rotate arround a black hole instead of being swallowed by it....You need to be very lucky though..

I don't think I'll need luck to be on my side because I don't plan on orbiting black holes anytime soon.

In all seriousness though, I heard a theory that something that is swallowed by a black hole may look like it is forever suspended in space. That is because any light that might have been reflecting off of it cannot escape. Just wondering what you think the validity of this theory might be. I also may not be explaining it as best as it should be.

 

[EiNsTeiN]

I don't think I'll need luck to be on my side because I don't plan on orbiting black holes anytime soon.

In all seriousness though, I heard a theory that something that is swallowed by a black hole may look like it is forever suspended in space. That is because any light that might have been reflecting off of it cannot escape. Just wondering what you think the validity of this theory might be. I also may not be explaining it as best as it should be.

If you are going travel there any time, I recommend rotating arround a supernova instead, cuz it looks better

Actually when something is swallowed be a black hole, we dont know its fate...Non of the scientists are sure about what happens in there...cuz according to the general relativity, all the scientific laws we know break up inside the blackhole...

Lots of theories were proposed...but what everybody is sure about is that when you are swallowed there, you will no more be existing neither in our space or in time!!
seems insanely...ha??...but this is what attracts me to physics...insanity!!

Einstein and another collegue once proposed the existance of wormholes (this thing in science fiction)....when a body is swallowed, he insatntly appears in another place and time, which could be a time machine or Ionic transfere machine ( both a good science fiction material )

 

[zombieharlot]

If you are going travel there any time, I recommend rotating arround a supernova instead, cuz it looks better

Actually when something is swallowed be a black hole, we dont know its fate...Non of the scientists are sure about what happens in there...cuz according to the general relativity, all the scientific laws we know break up inside the blackhole...

Lots of theories were proposed...but what everybody is sure about is that when you are swallowed there, you will no more be existing neither in our space or in time!!
seems insanely...ha??...but this is what attracts me to physics...insanity!!

Einstein and another collegue once proposed the existance of wormholes (this thing in science fiction)....when a body is swallowed, he insatntly appears in another place and time, which could be a time machine or Ionic transfere machine ( both a good science fiction material )

Well, since an actual black hole swallowing has been recorded, I'm sure we'll be able to answer more questions. But then again, for every question answered a thousand more come about.

 

[EiNsTeiN]

You can't believe how much are the questions scientists are trying to answer right now...just in the black hole issue

 

[standing_on_one_foot]

If you are far enough, you can just rotate arround a black hole instead of being swallowed by it....You need to be very lucky though..

Well, no luckier than you need to be around any similarly massive object.

Regarding the question of what happens when something goes into a black hole, you do run into the difficulties of being unable to get any information about what's going on inside, rather by definition.

Although apparently, Stephen Hawking recently lost a bet regarding whether the radiation you get from a black hole contains information. Supposedly it does (although while I am willing to concede that Stephen Hwking knows much more about this than I do, nobody is entirely sure). Altogether very strange. And I am barely on speaking terms with special relativity as it is, so I wouldn't presume to understand general relativity too well in these matters, and anyone I might normally asked is who-knows-where on winter vacation.