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Are "black" Americans owed something besides the protection provided by the same laws ...

Are "black" Americans owed something by "white" Americans or the government other than the protection provided by the same laws that provide protection for the rest of American citizens?
 

Phaedrus

Active Member
In a country where bigotry is sadly still alive, it is no wonder that restitution must be paid forward.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
According to the Preamble of the Constitution of the United States of America, we have the obligation to protect and provide for the general welfare of all. But also part of this involves how to deal with minorities, and sometimes different measures may need to be taken.

IOW, a "one size fits all" approach rarely works.
 

Audie

Veteran Member
In a country where bigotry is sadly still alive, it is no wonder that restitution must be paid forward.

It lives in every country on earth, and in every heart.

Them's as think they are the exception are right
there proving they are not.
 

Regiomontanus

Ματαιοδοξία ματαιοδοξιών! Όλα είναι ματαιοδοξία.
It lives in every country on earth, and in every heart.

Them's as think they are the exception are right
there proving they are not.

Yes, ever country. Look at the repression (to put it mildly) of minorities in China. We don't have re-education camps here like China does, of course. But there is still much hate here.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Are "black" Americans owed something by "white" Americans or the government other than the protection provided by the same laws that provide protection for the rest of American citizens?
Yes:

1. The descendants of slaves are owed reparations and compensation from the estates of the owners of those slaves. Any wealth created through slavery should be treated as the proceeds of crime and returned to its rightful owners, or to those who would have inherited the wealth from its rightful owners.

This isn't a simplistic "white" versus "black" issue, but on the whole, the slaves and their descendants tend to be black, and those who have received wealth obtained from slavery tend to be white.

2. Equal treatment in all respects does nothing to address the impacts today of unfair disadvantage in the past. Refusing to acknowledge these impacts effectively means making these disadvantages permanent. It does not create equal opportunity.

3. If you think that black people and white people enjoy equal protection and rights in the US today, give your head a shake. "Police shooting" is a leading cause of death for young men of one particular racial group. Want to guess which?
 

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
3. If you think that black people and white people enjoy equal protection and rights in the US today, give your head a shake. "Police shooting" is a leading cause of death for young men of one particular racial group.
But not the leading cause of death.
The leading cause of violent death is other members of the same demographic. Far and away.
So I'll ask you:
Want to guess which?

Tom
 

shmogie

Well-Known Member
Are "black" Americans owed something by "white" Americans or the government other than the protection provided by the same laws that provide protection for the rest of American citizens?
I believe in reparations. Every freed American slave should receive 1 billion dollars.

The rest, absolutely nothing. I am not responsible for contributing a nickel relating to events in the Republic that ended 150 years ago.
 

Audie

Veteran Member
Yes:

1. The descendants of slaves are owed reparations and compensation from the estates of the owners of those slaves. Any wealth created through slavery should be treated as the proceeds of crime and returned to its rightful owners, or to those who would have inherited the wealth from its rightful owners.

This isn't a simplistic "white" versus "black" issue, but on the whole, the slaves and their descendants tend to be black, and those who have received wealth obtained from slavery tend to be white.

2. Equal treatment in all respects does nothing to address the impacts today of unfair disadvantage in the past. Refusing to acknowledge these impacts effectively means making these disadvantages permanent. It does not create equal opportunity.

3. If you think that black people and white people enjoy equal protection and rights in the US today, give your head a shake. "Police shooting" is a leading cause of death for young men of one particular racial group. Want to guess which?

How are you going to identify "wealth... slavery"?

I personally feel the railroads owe a great deal to
Chinese, for their unfair and discriminatory practices
in the day.

But I can wait. First, I want to see if the plan is to
give the land back to the Indians from whom it was
stolen. In that case, I wont expect anything for myself.

What is your plan? You live on stolen land.

As for leading cause of death, the reason that the
police dont shoot Asians etc full of holes is....they
are not out committing crimes.

Would it be realistic for you to post the number of
black on black murders v the number killed by police?

The number killed police in gravest extreme, v the
number in wrongful shootings?
The percent of whites similarly killed incomparable
situations?

The proximal cause of blacks getting shot
by police is, they are out committing crimes.
These reparations are not for a second going
to change that.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
I believe in reparations. Every freed American slave should receive 1 billion dollars.

The rest, absolutely nothing. I am not responsible for contributing a nickel relating to events in the Republic that ended 150 years ago.
Do you feel this way about proceeds of crime in general?

"Bill stole a car, but the guy he took it from died, so I guess Bill just gets to keep it and give it to his kid."
 

shmogie

Well-Known Member
So, because Blacks are killed by police shootings, the police are hunting blacks to kill them ?

You are so ignorant on this issue, if you weren´t a Canadian, I would be surprised.

Very rarely, a police officer does commit a shooting out of policy, or with criminal intent. Those should be prosecuted fully.

The vast majority of police shootings are justified.

Because it is a white Officer and Black suspect, or even a Black Officer, ignoring the facts to whip up hysteria doesn´t change the facts.

You know nothing of the dynamics involved, I have experienced them.

Your opinion is totally irrelevant when it comes to reality, related to this issue.
 

shmogie

Well-Known Member
Do you feel this way about proceeds of crime in general?

"Bill stole a car, but the guy he took it from died, so I guess Bill just gets to keep it and give it to his kid."
Nope, only for freed slaves. I owe no one else anything related to slavery.

I have ancestors who died fighting on the union side in the Civil war. Perhaps Blacks owe me something for that loss.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Nope, only for freed slaves. I owe no one else anything related to slavery.

I have ancestors who died fighting on the union side in the Civil war. Perhaps Blacks owe me something for that loss.
The best way to get compensation is to work more.
 

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Are "black" Americans owed something by "white" Americans or the government other than the protection provided by the same laws that provide protection for the rest of American citizens?
Well, I am not an US citizen so I don't really have a view on this specific matter.
But they are a minority who are often victims of ongoing discrimination. So they do have a right to demand corrective actions that redress those discrimination effects.
 
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