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Featured Are Baha’u’llah’s prophecies coming true?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Trailblazer, Feb 26, 2022.

  1. Truthseeker

    Truthseeker Non-debating member when I can help myself

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    Since Baha'u'llah many kings have fallen, there has been WW I, WW II, the rise of the Bolsheviks, the fall of the Bolsheviks, the Revolutions in China, the Great Depression, to name a few.:rolleyes:
     
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  2. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    Count for what? I am not trying to use the prophecy to prove about Baha'u'llah was divinely inspired.
    AGAIN, I am not trying to use the prophecy to prove about Baha'u'llah was divinely inspired.
    The purpose of this thread was not to determine if Baha'ullah was a divinely inspired Prophet.
    I wanted to discuss what is going on NOW, not what happened in the past

    You are trying to use the prophecies to determine if Baha'u'llah was divinely inspired in which case the prophecies would be valid, according to you, but that is not the topic of this thread.

    I said: The old world order being rolled up and a new world order is rising in its stead.
    Are Baha’u’llah’s prophecies coming true?
    If the old world order being rolled up and a new world order is rising in its stead the prophecies are coming true. Whether it means Baha'u'llah was a Prophet or not is a different discussion

    I do not want to discuss prophecies with you again and that is why I ignored most of your post.
     
  3. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    I did reply to the post.
    #361 Trailblazer, Today at 7:49 PM

    Sorry if you had your hopes up, thinking that maybe someday you might see God.
    NOTHING could be more absurd. Nobody can ever see God and live.

    “Were the Eternal Essence to manifest all that is latent within Him, were He to shine in the plentitude of His glory, none would be found to question His power or repudiate His truth. Nay, all created things would be so dazzled and thunderstruck by the evidences of His light as to be reduced to utter nothingness.”
    Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 71-72

    This is not a Baha'i thing. All Christians know that nobody has ever seen God and that God sent Jesus as His Representative on earth.

    The Old Testament is anthropomorphic. Even most Jews do not believe that Moses actually saw God. :rolleyes:
     
    #383 Trailblazer, Feb 28, 2022
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2022
  4. Truthseeker

    Truthseeker Non-debating member when I can help myself

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    Yes, he learned to read and write. What He wrote was from a Source beyond your understanding.:D That's all I will give you.
     
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  5. Truthseeker

    Truthseeker Non-debating member when I can help myself

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    No, you don't understand. It was WW I when there was a second turn. Take notice @KWED. The banks of the Rhine covered with gore refers to the Franco-Prussia war. There is another turn says nothing about the Rhine covered with gore. And even if it did, the allies pushed Germany back across the Rhine in 1918, and then there was the armistice. That's how I remember it.
     
    #385 Truthseeker, Mar 1, 2022
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2022
  6. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    Oh no, I have to change my Word document again!
    Let me get this straight so I don't mess up again. :(

    O banks of the Rhine! We have seen you covered with gore, inasmuch as the swords of retribution were drawn against you; and you shall have another turn. And We hear the lamentations of Berlin, though she be today in conspicuous glory.”
    Proclamation of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 39

    The first turn when the swords of retribution were drawn against Germany for rejecting Baha’u’llah was the first battle that was fought, the Franco-Prussian War.

    The second turn when the swords of retribution were drawn against Germany for rejecting Baha’u’llah was World War I.

    Another turn does not mean that World War I was fought on the Banks of the Rhine, right?

    Okay I just edited my post. Please go back and see if it is correct.
     
  7. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    You might say so, but it is absolute foolishness to think that events can be foretold. Things happen because of probability and uncertainty.
    That is why Krishna said "Ma phaleshu kadachana" (Your right does not extend to the result of your actions. There will be innumerable variables involved, your action is just one of them).
    BhgawadGita 2.47
    Is that anything new? Empires, emperors, kings, kingdoms, have always been falling ever since the day societies came up, even in the animal kingdom (if you do not consider humans to be animals).
     
    #387 Aupmanyav, Mar 1, 2022
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2022
  8. Truthseeker

    Truthseeker Non-debating member when I can help myself

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    I edited my post above. I amended it to at the end:

    Take notice @KWED. The banks of the Rhine covered with gore refers to the Franco-Prussia war. There is another turn says nothing about the Rhine covered with gore. And even if it did, the allies pushed Germany back across the Rhine in 1918, and then there was the armistice. That's how I remember it.
     
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  9. Tiberius

    Tiberius Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I already know that they pick and choose which Bible verses they use. No different to many Christians, really.
     
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  10. Truthseeker

    Truthseeker Non-debating member when I can help myself

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    That was allegedly said a long time before it was written down, how do you know He said this, and since when do you believe in Krishna. He is supposed to be an avatar of Vishnu, and you are an atheist. You are not sincere or honest, and well as not having an open mind. I'm sorry, but I'm letting you have it. I'm only human. I want to an discussion with people here, but I cannot have a discussion with you, you only debate, you only want to want to win. Do you believe in anything, really, or are you only here to be a troll.
     
  11. Tiberius

    Tiberius Well-Known Member

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    Count as a valid prophecy. Are you having trouble following the conversation again?

    Not once in this thread have I claimed that Mr B was not divinely inspired, therefore his never made any valid prophecies.

    Again, you use a strawman against me. I am not discussing Mr B at all, I am discussing how we can tell if a prophecy is valid, as the validity of a prophecy must be ascertained before we can claim it has been fulfilled.

    If you ask, "Are Mr B's prophecies coming true?" then it presupposes that what he presented was a valid prophecy. I have claimed that it is not a valid prophecy because it is too vague, and many events can be claimed to have fulfilled it.

    As I've already claimed, that prophecy in question was fulfilled by the internet.
     
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  12. Tiberius

    Tiberius Well-Known Member

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    Ah, I must have missed that. I'll reply to it here.

    Needless to say, I do not expect to see God, since I don't believe he even exists. I thought you would have known this about me by now.

    Moses, and many others, have seen God.

    Abraham saw God several times.
    • And the LORD appeared unto Abram, and said, Unto thy seed will I give this land: and there builded he an altar unto the LORD, who appeared unto him. Genesis 12:7
    • And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him.... Genesis 17:1
    • And the Lord appeared unto him [Abrham] in the plains of Mamre. Genesis 18:1
    • And I [God] appeared unto Abraham. Exodus 6:3
    • And he said, Men, brethren, and fathers, hearken; The God of glory appeared unto our father Abraham, when he was in Mesopotamia, before he dwelt in Charran Acts 7:2

    Isaac saw him twice.
    • And the LORD appeared unto him [Isaac], and said, Go not down into Egypt; dwell in the land which I shall tell thee of. Genesis 26:2
    • And the LORD appeared unto him [Isaac] the same night, and said, I am the God of Abraham thy father: fear not. Genesis 26:24
    • And I appeared unto ... Isaac. Exodus 6:3

    Jacob saw God face to face and beat him in a wrestling match.
    • Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed. And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved. Genesis 32:30
    • And God appeared unto Jacob again, when he came out of Padanaram, and blessed him. Genesis 35:9
    • And Jacob said unto Joseph, God Almighty appeared unto me at Luz in the land of Canaan. Genesis 48:3
    • And I appeared unto ... Jacob. Exodus 6:3

    Moses spoke to God face to face and even got a peek at God's backsides!
    • The LORD God ... appeared unto me [Moses], saying, I have surely visited you. Exodus 3:16
    • That they may believe that the LORD God ... hath appeared unto thee [Moses]. Exodus 4:5
    • And the Lord spake to Moses face to face, as a man speaketh to his friend. Exodus 33:11
    • My servant Moses is not so, who is faithful in all mine house. With him will I speak mouth to mouth, even apparently, and not in dark speeches; and the similitude of the LORD shall he behold. Numbers 12:7-1
    • And there arose not a prophet since in Israel like unto Moses, whom the Lord knew face to face. Deuteronomy 34:10
    • And I [God]will take away my hand, and thou [Moses] shalt see my backparts. Exodus 33:23

    Moses, Aaron, Nadab, Abihu, and seventy elders saw God.
    • Then went up Moses and Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel. And they saw the God of Israel ... They saw God, and did eat and drink. Exodus 24:9-11God talked face to face to all the people of Israel, and plans to do so again someday.For they have heard that thou Lord art among this people, that thou Lord art seen face to face. Numbers 14:14
    • The Lord talked with you [the people of Israel] face to face in the mount out of the midst of the fire. Deuteronomy 5:4
    • Afterwards he was seen upon earth, and conversed with men. Baruch 3:38
    • And I [God] will bring you [the Israelites] into the wilderness of the people, and there will I plead with you face to face.Ezekiel 20:35

    Manoah and his wife (Samson's parents) saw God. (Manoah thought God would kill them for it.)
    • And Manoah said unto his wife, We shall surely die, because we have seen God. But his wife said unto him, If the LORD were pleased to kill us, he would not have received a burnt offering and a meat offering at our hands, neither would he have shewed us all these things, nor would as at this time have told us such things as these. And the woman bare a son, and called his name Samson. Judges 13:22-24

    Micaiah saw God sitting on his throne.
    • I [Micaiah] saw the Lord sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing by him on his right hand and on his left. 1 Kings 22:19, 2 Chronicles 18:18

    Job saw God after God and Satan tormented him and killed his children.
    • I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee. Job 42:5

    David saw God in the sanctuary.
    • To see thy power and they glory, so as I have seen thee in the sanctuary. Psalm 63:2 (Supposdely "A Psalm of David")

    Isaiah, a man of unclean lips, saw God sitting on a throne below some six-winged seraphim.
    • I [Isaiah] saw, also, the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple. Above it stood the seraphims: each one had six wings. ... Then said I, Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the LORD of hosts. Isaiah 6:1-2

    Ezekiel saw God's loins, which appeared to be on fire.
    • And I saw ... the appearance of his loins even upward, and from the appearance of his loins even downward, I saw as it were the appearance of fire, and it had brightness round about. ... This was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the LORD. And when I saw it, I fell upon my face. Ezekiel 1:27-28

    Amos saw God standing on a wall with a plumbline in his hand.
    • The LORD stood upon a wall made by a plumbline, with a plumbline in his hand. Amos 7:7
    • I saw the Lord standing upon the altar: and he said, smite the lintel of the door, that the posts may shake. Amos 9:1

    Habakkuk saw horns coming out of God's hand.
    • God came from Teman, and the Holy One from mount Paran ... He had horns coming out of his hand. Habakkuk 3:3-5

    And Jesus said that angels see God's face, and whoever has seen Jesus has seen God.
    • Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven. Matthew 18:9
    • He that hath seen me hath seen the Father. John 14:9
     
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  13. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    I never, even for a moment, think that Gita is a record of what Krishna, a supposed avatara of Hindu Lord Vishn, said. Gita was written around the beginning of Christian era, by an unnamed poet and there have been interpolations later, but it still remains a book of Hindu wisdom if you disregard the purely sectoral verses.

    Also remember that you are in a debate forum, where people will question your beliefs if they think such beliefs are wrong.

    Why did you post the topic here if you did not want a debate? It should have been in the Abrahamic religions forum.
     
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  14. oldbadger

    oldbadger Skanky Old Mongrel!

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    Yes! Some still do!
    I've been reading Christian posts explaining that it was Obama's/Biden's fault that Putin has been upset,....... leading to this! ........ when it is mostly Christians in Ukraine who are struggling against this international assassin.

    Politics comes way before faith for some, I think.
     
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  15. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    You quote a few interesting things.
    - Yes, the God of Abraham likes the burnt offering of flesh the most. The same happened with Abel. Not surprising, I too like them. Are we not made in his image? Let him come to India. I will offer him the best Mughulai kebabs (although perhaps they would not compare with the kebabs of Gawalmandi, Lahore. Before partition, my father-in-law resided there).
    - With his lions upward, appearance of fire, bright roundness, glory of the Lord; no wonder Ezekiel swooned.
    - Again with a plumb-line in his hand, I do not know which building he was constructing?
    - Of course, all-mighty God can do whatever he likes (except sending his message directly to humans), but perhaps Habakkuk was talking of nails and not horns out of hands.
    - Of course, Jesus was his own begotten son. Why would Jesus not be able to see him?
     
    #395 Aupmanyav, Mar 1, 2022
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2022
  16. KWED

    KWED Scratching head, scratching knee

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    Yes I am. How else could I have come up with such a vision and shared it with the world?
     
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  17. KWED

    KWED Scratching head, scratching knee

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    Again, we have been through this before. A claim and a belief are essentially the same thing.

    So you believe anything and everything that has not been proved to be false can therefore be assumed to be true? So I guess you have prepared to hide your thoughts from our rodent overlords?
     
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  18. Brian2

    Brian2 Well-Known Member

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    What kind of predictions did people in the Bible make?
    Have you any examples?
     
    #398 Brian2, Mar 1, 2022
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2022
  19. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    No, I know what you are talking about, I just disagree with you as to what is a valid prophecy.
    This is YOUR conversation with yourself, not with me, as I have no interest in it.
    I never said that you claimed that Baha'u'llah was not divinely inspired, therefore he never made any valid prophecies so that is a strawman.

    I already told you I do not want to discuss how you believe we can tell if a prophecy is valid. That is your ball game, not mine. You think that the validity of a prophecy must be ascertained according to your criteria before we can claim it has been fulfilled but I disagree and I have no interest in arguing with you.
    I do not care what you claim. That is your ball game not mine, and I am not playing the game with you.
    Do you understand plain English? If you want to talk about this since that is not the reason I started this thread.
    No, it will only be fulfilled by political action and historical events that are actually taking place now and into the future.
     
  20. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    Nobody has ever seen God at any time. The New Testament cleared up many of the misunderstandings people had about God because of al the anthropomorphism that are in the Old Testament.
    It is called the NEW Testament because it is NEW. Newer scriptures always clear up misunderstandings from older scriptures

    John 1:18
    No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.

    1 John 4:12 No one has seen God at any time; if we love one another, God abides in us, and His love is perfected in us.

    John 5:37
    And the Father who sent Me, He has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time nor seen His form.

    1 Timothy 6:16
    who alone possesses immortality and dwells in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see. To Him be honor and eternal dominion! Amen.

    Source: 16 Bible verses about Not Seeing God

    You are quite a hypocrite to try to use a Bible you do not even believe is true to prove your point.

    You do not even believe that God exists and you keep beating this into the ground just to try to prove you are right and I am wrong. Any blind person can see that is what you are doing.
     
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