Here is an interesting article. The Origins of Religion: How Supernatural Beliefs Evolved
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Are babies atheist?
- Thread starter Jeremiahcp
- Start date
I used to think that too, but the terminology is evolving from that both in lay, philosophical and theological usage. Just like weak atheism and implicit atheism used to be interchangeable and now isn't.
Nontheism - Wikipedia
And what exactly were you trying to say in that post?
I've thought that humans evolved in a niche which selected for pattern recognition desire & ability.
Religion developed as a dysfunction of that, ie, it's the quick & easy path to thinking that one
understands one's environment. But religion might also be useful in motivating societies to do
things like win wars (against the non-believers, of course).
Caution:
The above is pure speculation.
I know not wherefrom I speak.
(Does that last pretentious sentence even make sense?)
Trying again:
You quoted my post. Was what you said supposed to relate to my post? If so, how?
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
Yes, they are.
Pretend you were born down in a dark cave with only your mother and rest of your family there. No one has heard the word god nor came out of the cave to learn anything different. You grow up not now anything about a god. The language is foreign. How can you believe something you are not introduced to to begin with? To a baby, god doesn't exist.
Erebus
Well-Known Member
To be perfectly honest, both theist and atheist are at least somewhat limited as labels given the sheer variety of different god beliefs.
At any rate, the simplest definition of atheist I can think of is, "doesn't believe in any gods." As a definition, it can certainly be applied to babies, bricks, puddles and any number of other things. It's not so much about finding a useful definition as it is a question of how useful it is to apply that definition to those things. I gave an example where it could be useful but I'm a little stumped on coming up with more.
Put it this way, if you tell me that you're an atheist, I can at the very least infer that you have an idea of what you think a god would be and some reason for not believing (even if that reason is as simple as, "never really seen anything that would convince me otherwise"). You telling me that you're an atheist gives me a rough idea of where you're coming from for the purposes of discussion. If you tell me, "I'm an atheist, just like a baby or a puddle is an atheist" that would raise far more questions for me than it answers!
Ponder This
Well-Known Member
From the point of view of science, it is speculation as no one has conducted an experiment to verify the nature of baby beliefs. If you are wondering if babies are writing doctoral theses on Theosophy the answer is no.
So the supposing that babies are capable of the cognitive understanding of theism vs atheism, then you have to ask: what is the nature of these gods or lack thereof that they are imagining and to what extent does it actually match our own cognitive notions of gods or the lack thereof.
You're making those inferences from the "I am" part, not the "an atheist" part.
If you tell me "I'm tall," I can infer that you've thought about what it means to be tall, you've compared your height to the height of other people, and you've concluded that you're tall. However, none of that self-reflection is intrinsic to being tall.
YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
I am totally aware of the possibilities, but due to several unique angles, that were supported by my mom's accounts from that era, I'm reasonably sure it is a true memory as I also have many other early childhood memories too. The next most recent one was from about 6 months, as I was put on a very cold scale to weigh me. Plus, the image is from such an odd angle in that it could only have been seen from a position flat on ones back, looking up. If it is fabricated, it's a rather splendid fabrication.
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Erebus
Well-Known Member
Okay, let's try putting it another way because I'm honestly not quite sure where our disagreement lies here.
If I tell you, "I'm tall," then that would actually mean something. Whether that's due to self-reflection is irrelevant, you at least have an idea of what I probably mean when I say, "I'm tall." If I told you, "I'm not 500 metres tall," that gives you nothing. It may be an accurate statement but it's not useful.
To me, an adult describing themselves as an atheist is akin to them describing themselves as tall. For all its vagueness, it's at least something. Applying the label atheist to a baby is akin to describing them as not 500 metres tall. Technically accurate but doesn't tell me anything useful and you might as well not bother.
That's where I'm coming from. For the sake of clarity, which bit or bits do you disagree with?
Which post are you referring to? Just so we are on the same page. I have lost track.
Trying again:
You quoted my post.
I give up.
Rational Agnostic
Well-Known Member
If atheism is defined as a lack of belief in gods, then, yes, of course babies are atheists. If atheism is defined as belief that no gods exist then babies are not atheists.
Dr Justin Barrett, a senior researcher at the University of Oxford's Centre for Anthropology and Mind, claims that young people have a predisposition to believe in a supreme being because they assume that everything in the world was created with a purpose.
He says that young children have faith even when they have not been taught about it by family or at school, and argues that even those raised alone on a desert island would come to believe in God.
"The preponderance of scientific evidence for the past 10 years or so has shown that a lot more seems to be built into the natural development of children's minds than we once thought, including a predisposition to see the natural world as designed and purposeful and that some kind of intelligent being is behind that purpose," he told BBC Radio 4's Today programme.
"If we threw a handful on an island and they raised themselves I think they would believe in God."
Children are born believers in God, academic claims
"Children's normally and naturally developing minds make them prone to believe in divine creation and intelligent design. In contrast, evolution is unnatural for human minds; relatively difficult to believe."
More details here:
Belief in God is part of human nature - Oxford study
Humans are naturally predisposed to believe in gods and life after death, according to a major three-year international study.
Led by two academics at Oxford University, the £1.9 million study found that human thought processes were “rooted” to religious concepts.
But people living in cities in highly developed countries were less likely to hold religious beliefs than those living a more rural way of life, the researchers found. The project involved 57 academics in 20 countries around the world, and spanned disciplines including anthropology, psychology, and philosophy.
Children were asked whether their mother would know the contents of a closed box. Three-year-olds believed that their mother and God would always know the contents, but by the age of four, children start to understand that their mothers were not omniscient.
Belief in God is part of human nature - Oxford study
He says that young children have faith even when they have not been taught about it by family or at school, and argues that even those raised alone on a desert island would come to believe in God.
"The preponderance of scientific evidence for the past 10 years or so has shown that a lot more seems to be built into the natural development of children's minds than we once thought, including a predisposition to see the natural world as designed and purposeful and that some kind of intelligent being is behind that purpose," he told BBC Radio 4's Today programme.
"If we threw a handful on an island and they raised themselves I think they would believe in God."
Children are born believers in God, academic claims
"Children's normally and naturally developing minds make them prone to believe in divine creation and intelligent design. In contrast, evolution is unnatural for human minds; relatively difficult to believe."
More details here:
Belief in God is part of human nature - Oxford study
Humans are naturally predisposed to believe in gods and life after death, according to a major three-year international study.
Led by two academics at Oxford University, the £1.9 million study found that human thought processes were “rooted” to religious concepts.
But people living in cities in highly developed countries were less likely to hold religious beliefs than those living a more rural way of life, the researchers found. The project involved 57 academics in 20 countries around the world, and spanned disciplines including anthropology, psychology, and philosophy.
Children were asked whether their mother would know the contents of a closed box. Three-year-olds believed that their mother and God would always know the contents, but by the age of four, children start to understand that their mothers were not omniscient.
Belief in God is part of human nature - Oxford study
"Humans are programmed to believe in God because it gives them a better chance of survival, researchers claim. A study into the way children's brains develop suggests that during the process of evolution those with religious tendencies began to benefit from their beliefs - possibly by working in groups to ensure the future of their community." ... "Our research shows children have a natural, intuitive way of reasoning that leads them to all kinds of supernatural beliefs about how the world works,' he said. As they grow up they overlay these beliefs with more rational approaches but the tendency to illogical supernatural beliefs remains as religion.
Why we are born to believe in God: It's wired into the brain, says psychologist | Daily Mail Online
It is not reasonable to consider that babies have a stance against theism.
True.
It's okay: the same people find it useful to call babies non-smokers.
The Kilted Heathen
Crow FreyjasmaðR
Don't know if this has been said yet, but babies are nothing; neither theist or atheist, democrat or republican. As they're unable to form cohesive thought (enough to ponder spirituality), they certainly can't not believe in gods just as much as they can't believe in gods.
Babies are just babies.
Babies are just babies.