Are babies atheist?

[leibowde84]

You say this, but you have no proof. All you have is something that says "without gods" you are using that to include your understanding of what it means to be without. I dont think people were saying i dont believe and i dont not-believe back then. But if that is your claim, provide an example.

The idea that someone could be abandoned by the gods means that belief is not what a person was without.

I provided you proof in my next comment. You, otoh, haven't provided any citations.

 

[leibowde84]

You are putting the word belief in there. It is not there. Clearly the writers knew how to use the word belief, because they used it in number 2. But it is ommitted in number 1 where you want to put it.

What?! Do you know how a dictionary works? All of the options are correct uses of the term. Number 2 is all I need to prove my point. "Atheos" (literally meaning "without gods") referred to belief. It is stated clearly in the 2nd option for the meaning of "atheos".

 

[leibowde84]

You are putting the word belief in there. It is not there. Clearly the writers knew how to use the word belief, because they used it in number 2. But it is ommitted in number 1 where you want to put it.

Also, what do you think "without gods" means, as it obviously does not mean "abandoned by the gods", as that is the 4th option listed. "Without gods" means that you don't believe in gods. What else could it mean?

 

[Curious George]

What?! Do you know how a dictionary works? All of the options are correct uses of the term. Number 2 is all I need to prove my point. "Atheos" (literally meaning "without gods") referred to belief. It is stated clearly in the 2nd option for the meaning of "atheos".

If you reject the belief in gods then you are believing that there are no gods.

Rejecting the belief is akin to saying that the proposition god does not exist is false

Which in turn means that god does not exist is true.

However disdain can also mean refuse... which could potentially mean to not acknowledge that god exists.

If that is the case you are correct with regard to the terms theos and atheos.

 

[Curious George]

Also, what do you think "without gods" means, as it obviously does not mean "abandoned by the gods", as that is the 4th option listed. "Without gods" means that you don't believe in gods. What else could it mean?

My understanding is that it meant you were with a different set of gods. But i will get back to you on that with a citation.

And number 3 would have meant that you didnt pay the gods their dues... hence the use of the word secular. As one can be secular and still have belief.

 

[leibowde84]

My understanding is that it meant you were with a different set of gods. But i will get back to you on that with a citation.

And number 3 would have meant that you didnt pay the gods their dues... hence the use of the word secular. As one can be secular and still have belief.

"Without gods" COULD mean that you were without a specific set of gods OR without gods altogether. If you are without gods altogether you are without belief in gods.

 

[Thief]

You label them babies. Atheism is merely a word that means without a belief in the existence of God or gods. It is a descriptive term just like the word "babies". To deny its meaning just because you think God will punish everyone that the term "atheist" applies to is childish. I can't imagine God would be as cruel as you are suggesting he is.

Remember, as I have showed over and over, atheism is not necessarily a declaration or decision. Babies don't choose to be atheist. They are atheist by definition. And, I'm pretty sure God would not judge them for it.

what you show is a need to drag children unto your side of the fence

and they will suffer the same fate as you

and for clarity.....the innocent can be spared
they with declaration will suffer judgement

so your ploy to increase the numbers on your side of the fence will fail

 

[Mister Silver]

Are babies atheist? What do you think? Yes? No? Please explain.

Babies are born as blank slates; therefore, in essence, they are born atheistic (lacking belief in god) until the parents teach religious beliefs to them.

 

[Thief]

Babies are born as blank slates; therefore, in essence, they are born atheistic (lacking belief in god) until the parents teach religious beliefs to them.

nay....

atheism is a belief system.....and must be taught
THEN the decision is made....there is no god

 

[Mister Silver]

nay....

atheism is a belief system.....and must be taught
THEN the decision is made....there is no god

Tabula rasa (/ˈtæbjələ ˈrɑːsə, -zə, ˈreɪ-/) refers to the epistemological idea that individuals are born without built-in mental content and that therefore all knowledge comes from experience or perception. Proponents of tabula rasa generally disagree with the doctrine of innatism which holds that the mind is born already in possession of certain knowledge. Generally, proponents of the tabula rasa theory also favor the "nurture" side of the nature versus nurture debate when it comes to aspects of one's personality, social and emotional behavior, knowledge and sapience.

Tabula rasa - Wikipedia

Atheism is one thing: A lack of belief in gods.
Atheism is not an affirmative belief that there is no god nor does it answer any other question about what a person believes. It is simply a rejection of the assertion that there are gods. Atheism is too often defined incorrectly as a belief system. To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.

What is Atheism? | American Atheists

 

[Thief]

it is a rejection.......

noted in your offered post

 

[Milton Platt]

Are babies atheist? What do you think? Yes? No? Please explain.

So do babies actively believe in a god????? How could they?

 

[leibowde84]

what you show is a need to drag children unto your side of the fence

and they will suffer the same fate as you

and for clarity.....the innocent can be spared
they with declaration will suffer judgement

so your ploy to increase the numbers on your side of the fence will fail

Nope. That is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Why would babies being technically atheist be bolstering "my side"? That is a pretty pathetic claim ... even coming from you.

1. I don't care how many atheists there are. I actually couldn't care less. I am only pointing out that, technically speaking, babies lack belief in the existence of God or gods.
2. Why would it matter to me if babies were considered atheists? It doesn't help me in any way. So, where are you getting this craziness from?

I don't care if babies are atheists. It doesn't matter to me. But, I have no choice in the matter and neither do you. The term applies to babies because they lack belief. Simple as that.

 

[Thief]

Nope. That is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Why would babies being technically atheist be bolstering "my side"? That is a pretty pathetic claim ... even coming from you.

1. I don't care how many atheists there are. I actually couldn't care less. I am only pointing out that, technically speaking, babies lack belief in the existence of God or gods.
2. Why would it matter to me if babies were considered atheists? It doesn't help me in any way. So, where are you getting this craziness from?

I don't care if babies are atheists. It doesn't matter to me. But, I have no choice in the matter and neither do you. The term applies to babies because they lack belief. Simple as that.

I don't claim babies to be atheists.....
that's your sick stick

 

[leibowde84]

I don't claim babies to be atheists.....
that's your sick stick

I am correct, according to the definition of the word "atheism". You are the sick one who thinks that lacking belief in God or gods somehow will get you punished in the end. An extremely disturbing, incorrect, atrocious way of thinking, imho.

 

[ArtieE]

nay....

atheism is a belief system.....and must be taught
THEN the decision is made....there is no god

Some people believe in the Bible. The Bible says there is a God with a capital G and plenty of other gods. The Bible’s Many Gods | Gerald McDermott

So the Bible believers are polytheists and believe in the existence of many gods. Is that a belief system?
Bible believers also don't believe in the existence of some other gods, like Poseidon and Thor and Zeus and the like. Is that also a belief system?
If some Bible believers actively believe that Poseidon and Thor and Zeus don't exist would that be a belief system?

 

[leibowde84]

I don't claim babies to be atheists.....
that's your sick stick

Btw, I'm not claiming anything. I'm pointing out what the term "atheism" means. That's all.

 

[Thief]

Btw, I'm not claiming anything. I'm pointing out what the term "atheism" means. That's all.

and your stance is misconstrued.

maybe you can get one of your constituents to confess.....
( i do mean......babies of the non-believing declaration)

 

[leibowde84]

and your stance is misconstrued.

maybe you can get one of your constituents to confess.....
( i do mean......babies of the non-believing declaration)

Confess what?

 

[Curious George]

I provided you proof in my next comment. You, otoh, haven't provided any citations.

First, i question your wikipedia source. After going through greek english lexicons. I think it is clear that agnosticism was included in earlier definitions of atheism however it is very clear that atheism is a position.

Here are the uses of the word ἄθεος as found in A New Greek and English Lexicon

A Greek and English Lexicon published in 1846 by J donnegan

Without god;disbelieving in god, disregarding the gods, wicked, impious; abandoned by or odious to the gods; not knowing the true god and therefore wicked.

"The Epicurean Philodemus (ca. 110-35 BC) classified the various kinds of atheists in
antiquity as follows:
(1) Those who say that it is unknown whether there are any gods or what they are like;
(2) Those who say openly that the gods do not exist;
(3) Those who clearly imply it.

-Bremmer, J. N. (2006). Atheism in Antiquity. In M. Martin (Ed.), The Cambridge Companion to Atheism (pp.
11-26). Cambridge: Cambridge University Press.

The term was never intended to be a mere lack of belief as can be said for implicit atheists (such as babies). This is an arbitrary assignment that is not merited by the word construction.

So, we have no reason to accept that atheism meaning merely a "lack of belief" is anything more than arbitrary. I accept that this is how some people have construed the word in modern times. But to say that it is so because that was the logical correlation with the words historic use and construction is not only a poor argument, but an intellectually dishonest one.