• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Are atoms/DNA most basic "machine code" -or are there deeper levels?

Etritonakin

Well-Known Member
Not even sure how to ask this...

I guess the bottom line is.... are atoms of the same material all exactly the same -or can differences in individual atoms cause evolutionary changes? Can two seemingly identical strands of DNA not actually be identical?

I started thinking about it after hearing that radiation (natural) is suspected to be at least one driver of mutation.
I wasn't sure if it would affect things on a subatomic level -which led to the question of atoms of the same material actually being different.

If so -could the "code" go deeper than the atoms/DNA?
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
There are different isotopes of elements with slightly different properties. That could theoretically have a tiny impact but no one to my knowledge has considered something with that small a chance of causing a mutation.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
I think atoms are the same but can change elemental properties.

If only we could get small enough to take a proper look.
 

Sirona

Hindu Wannabe
If I didn't sleep through my entire chemistry classes then atoms can form molecules. DNA is a molecule and this is what can be changed by radiation.
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
Not even sure how to ask this...

I guess the bottom line is.... are atoms of the same material all exactly the same -or can differences in individual atoms cause evolutionary changes? Can two seemingly identical strands of DNA not actually be identical?

I started thinking about it after hearing that radiation (natural) is suspected to be at least one driver of mutation.
I wasn't sure if it would affect things on a subatomic level -which led to the question of atoms of the same material actually being different.

If so -could the "code" go deeper than the atoms/DNA?
There is an explanation of what ionising radiation does to DNA here: Radiation Effects on Cells & DNA

Changing atoms from one isotope to another is not mentioned. Generally, different isotopes of the same element won't behave very differently, apart from hydrogen. Deuterium, being twice the mass of hydrogen, does exhibit slightly different behaviour in some respects.
 

Native

Free Natural Philosopher & Comparative Mythologist
are atoms of the same material all exactly the same -or can differences in individual atoms cause evolutionary changes? Can two seemingly identical strands of DNA not actually be identical?
Atoms are in general different by their elementary charges but they can build molecules according to the available amount of other basic elements.
The helical moving DNA spiral is IMO governed by the double helical electric currents and their perpendicular magnetic fields which connect the two DNA strands to one, thus building the basics of everything growing, including humans.
 

Brian2

Veteran Member
There is an explanation of what ionising radiation does to DNA here: Radiation Effects on Cells & DNA

Changing atoms from one isotope to another is not mentioned. Generally, different isotopes of the same element won't behave very differently, apart from hydrogen. Deuterium, being twice the mass of hydrogen, does exhibit slightly different behaviour in some respects.

You seem quite knowledgeable so I'll ask you.
Does gene therapy change the Genes throughout the body and if not how would it work?
Can a mutated gene produce a mutated plant or animal in following generations if the Genes affected are not
the specific genes in the cells used for reproduction?
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
You seem quite knowledgeable so I'll ask you.
Does gene therapy change the Genes throughout the body and if not how would it work?
Can a mutated gene produce a mutated plant or animal in following generations if the Genes affected are not
the specific genes in the cells used for reproduction?
This sort of thing is not my area, but I had a look on the internet and found this which, is quite helpful: What is gene therapy?

As I read this, what gene therapy does is add an extra gene, separate from your "normal" DNA, into enough cells of the body, by some means e.g. a modified virus, to enable the body to start making whatever it was deficient in before, or to make something that kills off cells with a certain deficiency.

This would not be passed on to the next generation, unless it is something that would go into the cells that make the gametes. I don't know what controls the types of cell that the introduced gene goes into. Maybe a biology expert will show up who can answer this.
 

Etritonakin

Well-Known Member
Atoms are in general different by their elementary charges but they can build molecules according to the available amount of other basic elements.
The helical moving DNA spiral is IMO governed by the double helical electric currents and their perpendicular magnetic fields which connect the two DNA strands to one, thus building the basics of everything growing, including humans.
I saw a documentary about manufacturing parts which then self-assemble into the desired product, simply by throwing all the parts into a bin and shaking it.
Reminded me of that.

As I haphazardly put this in the science and religion section....

I have been considering the possibility that "God" evolved.
That would essentially mean self-assembly in the early stages -until increasing levels decision could be applied.
After sufficient understanding, it would become purposeful self-evolution by altering the otherwise-inevitable course of purely natural events.

Such a God would self-assemble similar to the way we do, but from most basic components and forces rather than already-complex components -then self-determine.

It would seem logical that decision needed to be applied very early on (increasing capability by increasing complexity).
In other words, a processOR necessarily self-assembled before more complex processES were possible.
It stands to reason, as ANY and EVERY process must be accomplished by a sufficient processor.
Any most-simple interaction could be viewed as a sort of logic gate (and/or transistor -if behavior was/was also analog).
Various arrangements and increased complexity of such would make more things possible.

Humans self-assembled within a very complex environment -after our environment self-assembled.

So... the question is....

From greatest possible simplicity, would it be logical to deduce that a universe and all therein necessarily preceded true, conscious decision -or that true, conscious decision necessarily preceded a universe?
If the initial "environment" was greatest possible simplicity, there would be no complex environment or "self"/inhabitant within it.
(Yet -it is now obviously many selves/inhabitants within the one environment.)
Inhabitants are basically know-ers and decision-makers.

What would cause/allow for greatest possible simplicity to become an increasingly complex environment if not an increasingly-complex processor?
Would they not initially increase in complexity together -interdependently -in tandem?
Would there not be equally-increased distinction between processor and result of process -environment and inhabitant?
Would not a processor developing to the point of understanding -that is, early/simple memory/comprehension/awareness/self-awareness -necessarily precede any further progress?

Might make this a separate thread....
 
Last edited:
Top