interminable
منتظر
I know
But I was interested to know what way he has found to deny our god.
Maybe because of punishment for homosexuality[emoji16] [emoji16] [emoji16]
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Are atheists liars, deniers or..?
But I was interested to know what way he has found to deny our god.
Maybe because of punishment for homosexuality[emoji16] [emoji16] [emoji16]
Absolutely. At the end of the day, I find the "distinction" between atheism and theism to be... well... not. I could stop calling my gods "gods" today and it would mean nothing. It's just a label. A word. It's the substance behind the words that matter. While I aim to respect how people self-identify, I also like to look past it to what they are actually doing. It wouldn't be hard at all for someone to do the same sorts of religious activities I do and call themselves an atheist, and I see it on a fairly regular basis. I don't agree with their self-identifier because to me what they are doing is transparently theistic in orientation, but... like I said, at the end of the day, it's just labels.
An interesting thing - early on in my path I definitely struggled with that word "god." At some point, I guess I decided that I was sick of letting the mainstream monotheists of my culture own that word. In the past, it meant some very different things, and as a contemporary Pagan, it made sense for me to reclaim ownership of that word "god" instead of ignore it and not use it. But there was definitely a time I used other words instead of "gods" to describe things - there was some personal baggage going on there. But then I went "why the blazes am I letting outsiders control how I use words within my own religion? That's dumb - Christians don't define what gods are for Pagans!" I put my foot down about it. I did the same thing on the word "religion." Guess I just refuse to let the majorities define the terms for all the minorities, or for myself.
Is there something about being an atheist that precludes religion to your mind? If not, I'm kinda confused.
It is ok. Common if regrettable mistake.
Oh, that is very easy to do.
The God of the Qur'an is described in such terms that he must be either non-existent or the supreme reference for all virtues.
Yet it is also inimical to homosexuality, which does not make sense.
It also disapproves of atheism, in violent terms no less. That means that he is either cruel or insane, which would contradict his quality of being supremely virtuous.
He also approves of Qur'anic ethics, which are based on tribal mentality. Which is to say, they need to define themselves in relation to some form of external enemy. As ethics go, those became obsolete a couple of millennia ago at least.
And then there is the self-imposed limitation of the presumed eternal validity of the revelation of the Qur'an. We are expected to accept that God is both supremely wise and satisfied with the prescriptions of the Qur'an for all of human time until extinction, despite it clearly being deeply flawed (in the ethical sense at the very least) for any given time in the last 1000 years or so, as well as for any conceivable future before a cataclysmic event.
So there you have it. The god of the Qur'an does not exist except in the faith of Muslims. We know that because he can't exist as the being of supreme power and virtue that he is described as being yet insist on having so many and so obvious flaws.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
"The mere concept that some sort of all powerful/all seeing
"god" created the entire universe and everything in it is so totally ludicrous."
It it from science what I have colored in magenta.
One is obviously wrong.
Jesus was doing alright, he acted on the Revelation from G-d.It is another thing that Bible does not depict many thing correctly.
Regards
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Critical thinkers except for themselves.
"Critical thinkers except for themselves."
That is right.
Regards
I certainly don't suspect that a god wrote it... but that is what you want us to believe...
What you actually mean is that everybody who don't believe exactly what you believe are wrong. No need to single out atheists.
Guy Threepwood
Mighty Pirate
you suspect ID over chance in this case, even with no evidence of intelligent agency, why?
I suspect somebody with knowledge of English wrote the word 'HELP' but I have no reason to suspect a god wrote it. If your god wrote 'HELP' I suspect he has finally realized what it would be like for him having to spend eternity with Christians.
Nope. There are plenty of folks who identify as non-theist and who are religious and/or identify with a religion. Why are you confused?
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber
What I find troubling, is that by any simple humanitarian approach in ethics, we are way better off than what anything Judaism, Christianity, and Islam have. For the most part, the world is so far removed from what the practices and ways and laws of those religions actually state, that indeed we are just better off without. Really, what we have is a group of benign everyday janes and joes, but they are paying lip service to a tradition and justifying the continued existence of ideology that is toxic and poisonous when someone takes it seriously and ascribes to what it actually mandates. We call the fundamentalists, conservatives, and extremists for a reason, and it does revolve directly around how strongly they adhere to their religious standards.
The troubling part is that we, as a society (or, at least in America), have openly declared you have to have faith in those religions to be a good person, and if you challenge that there is a real potential for things to get ugly, and you may upset someone you don't want to upset in ways you don't want to upset them. People say to respect people's religious views, been when can we ever expect us, those with no religious ideology or dogma or beliefs, to be respected? If I could slap everyone over their "microaggressions" against those who "just need to believe in something," (a direct quote attributed to tons and tons and tons of people I have encountered) I'd have a decent collection of teeth necklaces by now. Really, it's nothing other than intellectual dishonesty for people to be going on this "anything you want" kick, and it's not funny, harmless, or fun when those who are more serious about it are legalizing discrimination, wrongfully defining and teaching science and other subjects, contribute directly to a huge chunk of homeless youth, and occasionally turning suicidally violent.
Guy Threepwood
Mighty Pirate
fine,
so why bet on ID when there is no evidence of it? why couldn't it be the random action of the waves? that is possible also right?
Are you trying to say that a beach with the word
'HELP' on it is evidence of a god?
Guy Threepwood
Mighty Pirate
no,
I'm asking you why you conclude ID was involved in making the word, not just the waves - which you can see have washed up many other patterns
A Vestigial Mote
Well-Known Member
This is so messed up. I can't even begin to fathom why you think that the exact measurements of a right triangle have to have had some divine inspiration or design behind them. I mean... are you being serious? Do you simply never accept that sometimes THINGS JUST ARE?
For goodness sake, the fact that a right triangle follows the formula you put forth A^2 + B^2 = C^2... this is true for EXACTLY the same reason that 2 + 2 = 4. Because IT JUST IS. It may be a few steps removed from 2+4=4 in manner of complexity and proving such... but is exactly as fundamental a property of right triangles as is the property of 2 sets of 2 objects added together producing a set of 4 objects. Exactly. To argue otherwise is idiotic. YOU CAN'T DRAW A TWO-DIMENSIONAL TRIANGLE IN THIS UNIVERSE OR ANY OTHER WITHOUT IT ADHERING TO THE FORMULA. You can't. There was no need for "design" of this fact... it simply IS. Just like the constant PI. Sure, it is more difficult to "find" that constant... to prove for it. But it simply IS. It doesn't require someone to have put it there. It is just downright strange for you to even contemplate that.
And you probably wonder why I have challenged your "wisdom" in other threads. This is downright craziness.
In your earlier post you seem to intimate it.
Stepping away from what they call themselves for a moment, and focusing on your assessment, why should something being theistic in origin make it theistic? Secular humanism is not theistic, for example. Simplest example is LaVeyans, I guess. Clearly there is a theistic origin to much of what they do, including the very name they use for themselves. But calling them theistic appears to be a nonsense. You can define God in any way that makes sense to you, of course, and depending on that definition, you can just call EVERYONE a believer in 'God' but that is entirely not the intent of the atheist/theist dichotomy.
Sorry, I don't follow your reasoning. I assume a human wrote the word "HELP" in the sand. So? Are you saying that we are supposed to assume that a god wrote it?
really? I learned that on Richard Dawkins site. He loves universally giant brushes!!!
Look everyone, it's another hater up in their feelings screaming unintelligibly about something they don't understand
Exactly my point. I think we all end up arguing about nothing as if it's something, which maybe at the end of the day I sort of just slink off and play music and hike a lot. Trees make more sense to me than rhetorical debates. btw the title of the post is totally lame