Are Americans Living in the Past?

[Sunstone]

Are Americans living in the past when they think of America as a land of economic opportunity? Is the notion that America -- better than most or all other nations -- allows people who work hard to get ahead and realize their financial dreams true? Why or why not?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Are Americans living in the past when they think of America as a land of economic opportunity?

If that is what they believe, yes. America just doesn't have the upward mobility to prove such a claim.

Why or why not?

If it were true, farmers and construction workers would be some of the wealthiest among us, teachers would have lavish salaries, health care workers at all levels would be nothing less than very well off middle class, and fast food workers would make way more than minimum wage. On the flip side, corporate executives would make far less as they don't work nearly as hard as those doing the grunt work in factories and warehouses.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Are Americans living in the past when they think of America as a land of economic opportunity?

It seems about a month and a half in California has been changing my outlook, as I defaulted to my new perspective that does include ample opportunities for economic advancement. And then I had to remind myself of Indiana, where I was basically sunk due to a bad knee and not having went to med school, which left me with very little opportunity.
But it probably does come down to perspective and location. I was wasting away and rotting in Indiana. Here in California there is such an abundance of good economic opportunities that I was left with a headache searching for work because I've never been in an area with so many different jobs. Even for a bachelor's degree in psychology--something that has few uses outside of going to grad school--there are so many different job positions that I don't even have to go back to case management to use my degree, and I don't have to bit my tongue and work with kids to use it.
So, there may not be "one size fits all" approach. It may depend more on where you live than America as a whole.

 

[Cacotopia]

It still is. But I think the values have changed so dramatically that the dream seems dead.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

It still is. But I think the values have changed so dramatically that the dream seems dead.

For many it isn't. For many that came to an end about 10 years ago. Where I lived in Indiana was hit especially hard given there are three Chrysler plants and a Delco plant.
I consider myself fortunate enough that I forgot about my own difficulties in Indiana in that it was a total dead end for me and instead initially reflected on my new environment. And about half of the college grads Indiana produces leave the state. And why shouldn't we leave? Wages are terrible and opportunities are few.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Are Americans living in the past when they think of America as a land of economic opportunity? Is the notion that America -- better than most or all other nations -- allows people who work hard to get ahead and realize their financial dreams true? Why or why not?

American culture is future oriented. We see how we will better ourselves, plan for retirement, what we will do after that degree, and how to continue our legacy. The past is preserved to learn from but to extend not intentionally repeated.

Ideally, as a result, we plan to live in a land of oportunity. I think it's called manifest destiny.

Individual Americans are scattered in that thinking. Many here dont see ourselves as the best. If anything many have traveled and know of other countries, say via military, so they think less of America in comparision to poverty and what they feel other countries lack.

The problem is religious values say missionaries and politics still try to dictate what other countries do. Individually, some of us are too ignorant to form a non stereotypic opinion. But a lot of people are military so.

 

[Cacotopia]

For many it isn't. For many that came to an end about 10 years ago. Where I lived in Indiana was hit especially hard given there are three Chrysler plants and a Delco plant.
I consider myself fortunate enough that I forgot about my own difficulties in Indiana in that it was a total dead end for me and instead initially reflected on my new environment. And about half of the college grads Indiana produces leave the state. And why shouldn't we leave? Wages are terrible and opportunities are few.

It still exists for Americans, they have a pretty massive step up with a strong currency if they want to take their business abroad. The global market is vast and ripe for the picking. But then most Americans never leave their country, they are brainwashed to think it's better inside the American bubble than anywhere else. The way companies were run 30-50 years ago no longer exists. you don't go into a job and leave that same job 30-40 years later with a great pension or retirement plan. Capitalism in America makes Americans too expensive to hire in a business model where to bottom line is profit for share holders.

Which I still find amazing when Americans receive the least benefits, the least days off, the least sick days, no maternity leave, and a **** poor worker's compensation plan.

They pay the most for medical treatment, and are dropped the moment they are deemed no longer useful to a company's profit margins, with no retirement or 401K. Social security is in the toilet. And the country is fueled by debt and credit. Of course it seems hopeless, unless you get outside it's borders. Lot cheaper on the outside. Lot more benefits of working abroad. And not paying everything on a credit card. American's need to use a credit card to build credit. And pay cash or debit for everything else. That's how people get into the holes they are in.

America is a terrible place to work but the benefits of being abroad with the citizenship you have and all the benefits it comes with is priceless.

I see enormous opportunity out here in SE Asia. You can buy a multitude of products and services that would cost a fortune in America for a fraction of the cost. If your greed for profit isn't out of the park a lot of people could make a good life finding products American's pay too much for on home soil and bring those products to America. The internet "mall" direct delivery to home is the next step in consumerism. Amazon doesn't have everything you need but if people can find those niche markets. you can make a solid living.

 

[Cacotopia]

A good example that is in my field is canvas for artists. What you might pay for a 500 x 5 ft roll of canvas in America I could buy 20 x more and higher quality in SE Asia. And but not take a ridiculous profit margin. Goods and services drive prices up in America where they are dirt cheap elsewhere. Find something people need, and be the middle man for the product and sell it on the internet.

Now I would rather paint. But if I wanted the headache of the supply and logistics end of the art field I know I could make a pretty penny just supplying the canvas. Paint prices don't generally change globally however canvas and wood does.

Even custom frames. I don't know if you ever had a custom frame made on a picture or a painting but they ain't cheap? here? 20-30$ and it's hand carved too. Handcrafted products amazing profit margins. Just don't get too greedy, You want to make it affordable for your consumers so they will abandon a big brand for you.

This is way too ornate for my tastes, but I would ask that you guess what you think it would cost for a door like this to be made.

 

[Daemon Sophic]

Here is an article laying out the current data.
—>. link .<—

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

If that is what they believe, yes. America just doesn't have the upward mobility to prove such a claim.

If it were true, farmers and construction workers would be some of the wealthiest among us, teachers would have lavish salaries, health care workers at all levels would be nothing less than very well off middle class, and fast food workers would make way more than minimum wage. On the flip side, corporate executives would make far less as they don't work nearly as hard as those doing the grunt work in factories and warehouses.

That sounds like socialism!

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

This is way too ornate for my tastes, but I would ask that you guess what you think it would cost for a door like this to be made.

View attachment 24885

At a guess? Hundreds, if not thousands

 

[Jollybear]

Are Americans living in the past when they think of America as a land of economic opportunity? Is the notion that America -- better than most or all other nations -- allows people who work hard to get ahead and realize their financial dreams true? Why or why not?

I heard one guy put it like this

"The american dream, eh yes, but, you gotta be asleep to dream it."

My method of getting ahead is:

Work hard

Save hard

Sacrifice hard

Dont trust society, it will stab you

 

[Valjean]

Are Americans living in the past when they think of America as a landeashing end of economic opportunity? Is the notion that America -- better than most or all other nations -- allows people who work hard to get ahead and realize their financial dreams true? Why or why not?

America was a land of opportunity -- sixty years ago. But with the revanche of the industrialists and bankers, beginning back in the early '70s, after the Powell memo, Roosevelt's "economic royalists" began their slow climb back to their free market, unregulated glory days of the '20s.
After the adoption of the "trickle down" economic model thirty eight years ago, the long decline of America's middle class was pretty much assured.
America is no longer a land of opportunity | Financial Times

One might feel better about inequality if there were a grain of truth in trickle-down economics. But the median income of Americans today is lower than it was a decade and a half ago; and the median income of a full-time male worker is lower than it was more than four decades ago. Meanwhile, those at the top have never had it so good.

When I was a boy many single working men could buy a house, buy a new car every few years, enjoy a yearly vacation, send their kids to college and retire comfortably. With the erosion of unions, pensions and social programs, we've had to tighten our belts, and wives have had to move into the workforce just to try to maintain a diminishing standard of living.

The billionaire class now enjoys immense -- and increasing -- wealth and political power, while the rest of the economy stagnates and the fall into serfdom continues for the average Joe.
And the disparity continues. The right votes tax breaks to the rich, promising increasing prosperity, but the wealth has never trickled down. National debt increases, and the right uses this excuse to blame it on social programs, "entitlements" and the depredations of foreign enemies and (insert current social/ethnic scapegoats).
No longer the land of opportunity

Corporate leaders have been rewarded with huge payouts even when their corporation’s performance has been disappointing. Conversely, millions of Americans have maintained or upgraded their skills yet seen their jobs shipped abroad or downgraded. Is this a description of a merit-based society? How does it compare with that of mid-century America, when the rewards for work were distributed more broadly?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Are Americans living in the past when they think of America as a land of economic opportunity? Is the notion that America -- better than most or all other nations -- allows people who work hard to get ahead and realize their financial dreams true? Why or why not?

That notion was never really true. More than anything, it was part of the myth behind American expansionism and colonialism: "we're not like those European powers that subjugate people - when we take over somewhere else, we're making them more like us... and in the process, we're making them more free and giving them opportunity!"

 

[Valjean]

"we're not like those European powers that subjugate people - when we take over somewhere else, we're making them more like us... and in the process, we're making them more free and giving them opportunity!"

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

I heard one guy put it like this

"The american dream, eh yes, but, you gotta be asleep to dream it."

My method of getting ahead is:

Work hard

Save hard

Sacrifice hard

Dont trust society, it will stab you

Sounds great. Until you lose your job in an economic downturn you had no part in, and then when you finally get sorta kinda back to where you were, an unexpected medical emergency knocks you even further back...

 

[Cacotopia]

At a guess? Hundreds, if not thousands

1000- 2000 usd to get it made to order and installed. that's the avg cost

I got a 12 ft x 8.5 ft x 8 ft tall custom painting rack/cupboard on one side and dresser on other side made of teak wood, and installed in my studio for a mere 600$ that would cost me at least 3000 in America, there are huge opportunities to be had out here if you are in the furniture bizz.

 

[Cacotopia]

You can buy saffron for 30 cents for a 100 grams. Saffron is one of the most expensive spices on the planet. That Luwak Coffee, the most expensive coffee on the planet is about 50 bucks a kilo. When a single cup of it in a restaurant costs 100 bucks. Nutmeg is grown here in enormous quantities.

If I know anything about Americans, they are usually seekers of opportunity.

 

[Shad]

Are Americans living in the past when they think of America as a land of economic opportunity?

America still provides a lot of opportunity but is no longer the only nation which does so. The general idea is far more grounded in conditions of the past than the modern world. Such as post WW2 Europe compared to modern Europe.

Is the notion that America -- better than most or all other nations -- allows people who work hard to get ahead and realize their financial dreams true? Why or why not?

The notion as you framed it can not stand up against people's subjective dreams nor the life choices of the individuals. Dreams can be unrealistic be it the goal or the evaluation of one's abilities and skill sets. Choice can set the condition in which hard work can not overcome later conditions. The most obvious examples would be crime and dropouts. In both cases the conditions due to choices can not be overcome merely by working hard. It must also include working smart. Even a combination of both may not overcome poor life choices.

This notion, minus the dream, must be a life principle for it to have any realistic results. I still think the result would not be supportive the notion. The fact is this notion is really just a slogan these days.

 

[Jollybear]

Sounds great. Until you lose your job in an economic downturn you had no part in, and then when you finally get sorta kinda back to where you were, an unexpected medical emergency knocks you even further back...

This is true. All the hard work and a monkey wrench hits your weel, the worst feeling ever. Makes ya wanna give up and die. But, ya gotta summon the strength and keep going.