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Featured Are all atheists facing Hell?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Desert Snake, Aug 30, 2017.

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  1. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    Hebrew Sheol and Greek hades are Not the same words as Gehenna.
    Sheol and haides or hades is the grave. Those in the graves will be resurrected as per Revelation 1:18.
    Gehenna was a garbage pit (Not a cemetery). A garbage pit where things were destroyed Not kept burning forever.
    KJV translated the word Gehenna into English as hellfire.
    Emptied-out biblical hell (grave) is cast into Gehenna (destruction) after everyone is ' delivered up ' ( resurrected ) out of biblical hell according to Revelation 20:13-14.

    So, Gehenna ( meaning destruction) does occur 'after' judgement. Such as: destruction for the haughty figurative ' goats ' of Matthew 25:31-33 who are adversely judged at the soon coming ' time of separation ' to take place on Earth.
    All the wicked are destroyed forever according to Psalms 92:7.
     
    #101 URAVIP2ME, Sep 2, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2017
  2. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    Yes, and as Isaiah 25:8 also says swallowed up death in victory.....
     
  3. JesusBeliever

    JesusBeliever Active Member

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    I query the nature of the lake of fire, seeing that the Apostle Paul combines Death being "swallowed up in victory" with the corruptible putting on incorruption, and the mortal putting on immortality.
     
  4. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    I find the definition of the lake of fire is defined as ' second death ' at Rev. 20:13-14.
    Jesus will 'destroy' Satan according to Hebrews 2:14 B.
    Satan ends up in ' second death ' as per Rev. 21:8
    So, 'second death ' ( lake of fire/destruction in that death ) is a fitting term for: destruction.
    As according to Psalms 92:7 that the wicked will be ' destroyed ' forever.
    Two (2) choices are given at 2 Peter 3:9 to either ' repent ' or ' perish ' ( be destroyed ).

    Revelation 20:6 mentions a first or earlier resurrection to heaven.
    So, those who will have that sooner resurrection must put on immortality as Jesus is now immortal.
    1 Corinthians 15 starts with addressing Jesus' brothers ', Not the population in general.
    They are the heavenly resurrected ' first fruits 'of 1 Corinthians 15:20,23.
    And as we know after ' first ' comes others.

    ALL who died before Jesus died (John 3:13) do Not have a heavenly calling to heaven.
    They can have a future happy-and-healthy physical resurrection back to life on Earth.
    That is why Acts of the Apostles 24:15 applies to them. The ' future tense ' is used that there ' is going to be ' a resurrection...... So, those Not called to heaven are always mortal and they can gain everlasting life on Earth.

    Jesus' spiritual ' brothers ' of Matthew 25:40 are called ones to heaven. Called to immortality ( death proof ).
    They are part of that smaller heavenly group or ' little flock ' of Luke 12:32.
    The figurative humble 'sheep'-like people of Matthew 25:37 can remain forever alive on Earth.
    They are part of the ' other sheep ' of John 10:16 to be part of the humble meek to inherit the Earth.
    So, before Jesus died the only hope offered to people was an physical earthly hope of living forever on Earth as originally offered to Adam before his downfall.
     
  5. DavidFirth

    DavidFirth Well-Known Member

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    Also, see John 3:17 and 18.
     
  6. Desert Snake

    Desert Snake ️️️️️️️️️️

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    I didn't state that they were.
    Hades is used as a "word", that could mean a temporary, however Gehenna isn't traditionally assumed to be in accordance with some timeline. The gehenna part is just 'destruction'. It doesn't mean it isn't a permanent state. There is some jewish 》 early christian reference to this. I'm not aware of a specific notation that hell/gehenna, isn't permanent.
     
    #106 Desert Snake, Sep 5, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2017
  7. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

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    I must agree.....

    it is illogical that the peace of heaven is held.....with denial walking among the angels
     
  8. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    I find biblical hell is temporary according to Revelation 20:13-14; Revelation 1:18.
    Gehenna, on the other hand, is permanent because what was thrown into Gehenna was permanently destroyed.
    As in the wicked will be destroyed forever ( permanent ) according to Psalms 92:7.
     
  9. Yohanan ben Yaaqov

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    The only people that need to be fearful of “hell” are those people who are foolish enough to believe in anything as entirely stupid as “hell.” There is not, nor has there ever been, anything in Judaism similar to the chr-stian “hell.”

    According to Jewish beliefs atheists stand a far better chance of being counted among righteous gentiles than any chr-stian ever could. Since atheists do not believe in any god or gods, they are incapable of committing idolatry, and very unlikely to commit blasphemy. The remaining Mitz’vot for gentiles are a walk in the park, and if you’re a relatively decent human being, you’re probably already obeying them without even realizing it.

    However, chr-stianity is doomed half-way into the first page of its pagan fairytale. If you believe that any god could or would impregnate a human female, conceiving a demigod, then you are committing idolatry. If you believe that the God of Israel would violate His own Mitz’vot, not only by participating in a pagan ritual, but also by committing adultery, you are committing blasphemy.

    So while an atheist stands a very good chance of having a place in the world to come, a practicing chr-stian has no place in the world to come. We don’t even have to get into the entire plethora of idolatrous beliefs and practices found within chr-stianity; if you believe in the “virgin birth” myth as it is told in the chr-stian texts, you are committing idolatry and blasphemy, and cannot be counted among righteous gentiles.

    So it doesn’t really matter if you believe in the “trinity,” or if you believe in “hell,” or any of the other fairytale chr-stian mumbo-jumbo; if you believe that any god can have a son, and/or if you believe in the chr-stian birth myth, you are an idolater, which is much worse than an atheist.
     
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  10. Desert Snake

    Desert Snake ️️️️️️️️️️

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    Ok...
    Since there is no hell in your beliefs, it doesn't really matter.
     
  11. Spiderman

    Spiderman Veteran Member

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    No, God will enlighten them after they die. Then they will have the decision to accept the truth and be with God or reject him.
     
  12. JesusBeliever

    JesusBeliever Active Member

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    Hi there, could you please explain from the Old Testament why believing the virgin birth is idolatry and blasphemy? I thought that it was in reference to making statues to worship which we'd be in agreement.
     
  13. JesusBeliever

    JesusBeliever Active Member

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    Hello again,

    I'd be interested to hear your view about where this verse fits in and the nature or name of this fire through which some are saved. Taking into account what we know about the nature of earthly fire, seeing that it does indeed destroy many things, but there are certain elements that are not destroyed but rather purified by fire.

    "If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire." 1 Corinthians 3:15
     
  14. BilliardsBall

    BilliardsBall Well-Known Member

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    I can spell it out for you. People who proselytize to you, and Jesus, who desires relationship with you--you turn your back on them, logic, God and Heaven and Hell. So what hope do you have?
     
  15. BilliardsBall

    BilliardsBall Well-Known Member

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    You'd like me to include Muslims with atheists in the lists of the lost? How does that address the OP?

    Muslims believe in Hell.
     
  16. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
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    There is a tiny problem with your analysis, you know. Namely, that is makes no sense.
     
  17. Father Heathen

    Father Heathen Veteran Member

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    Of course, and that was the point.You said that if an atheist feared hell, they would become a christian. But Christianity isn't the only hell-fearing religion, so they could become muslim instead.
     
  18. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
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    Is it at all logical that belief in the existence of God/Hell/Heaven would be a factor?
     
  19. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    .... and Greetings in return.
    ' saved as by fire ' yes, as in that fire refines even purges to purify. Trials considered as testing at 1 Peter 4:12
    The tested quality of one's faith. (Job for example as many consider as a burning trial being stronger than usual).
    I found an interesting verse at 1 Peter 1:7. Also at 1 Peter 1:9 with sufferings connected to a ' fire '.
    Trial can produce endurance Paul pointed out a Romans 5:3; Romans 12:12; Acts of the Apostles 14:22.

    None of which is the destructive 'lake of life' (second death) as in Jesus' metaphor referred to at Mark 9:43 B
    JKV translated the word Gehenna ( garbage pit where things were destroyed forever ) in English as the word hell.
    The fire that never goes out as in meaning: No return from destruction as per Psalms 92:7
    Mark 9:49-50 are also interesting ' salted with fire ' . Salt is good unless watered down.
    Which that makes me think of the note on our ' salt shaker ' to remember the wife of Lot.
    I guess we can say Lot's wife was ' devoured by fire ' as worded at Revelation 20:9.
    That is the fiery devouring destruction we do Not want to face.
     
  20. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    Can't disagree that the ^ above ^ would be a factor.
    Even as with the angels being in heaven, but books and movies often put biblical angels in a non-biblical setting.
    There are many fictional teachings about biblical angels which have No biblical foundation.
    I find that is also true about the heavenly God of the Bible and biblical hell.
    Often I find a non-biblical hell being taught as being Scripture when Not really a scriptural teaching.
    The Bible's temporary hell comes to a final end according to Revelation 20:13-14 when emptied-out hell is cast vacant into that symbolic ' second death ' for vacated biblical hell.
     
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