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ARCHEOLOGY and THE BIBLE

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
And you are quite wrong about absence of evidence. If evidence is expected by an event, and over two million people traipsing through the desert for forty years would definitely leave evidence. The absence of such evidence is evidence against the event.

How's that? It was over 3,000 years ago! They didn't build structures. They were given Laws on cleanliness, so they didn't leave trash. They were constantly moving.

Too bad there is a ban on excavating the Red Sea, where those chariot wheels are. Neither Egypt nor Saudi Arabia allows it. (How convenient for you skeptics!)

But, near Nuweiba, there have been some evidence to surface in the form of pictures. Unfortunately, it's apparently illegal.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
How's that? It was over 3,000 years ago! They didn't build structures. They were given Laws on cleanliness, so they didn't leave trash. They were constantly moving.

Too bad there is a ban on excavating the Red Sea, where those chariot wheels are. Neither Egypt nor Saudi Arabia allows it. (How convenient for you skeptics!)

But, near Nuweiba, there have been some evidence to surface in the form of pictures. Unfortunately, it's apparently illegal.

You don't seem to understand. Laws of cleanliness or not, they would have left evidence. What is so hard to understand about that? There is a reason that no serious archaeologists take the myth seriously:

For you were (not) slaves in Egypt: The ancient memories behind the Exodus myth
Moses and the Exodus
The Exodus - Wikipedia

If you read the Bible literally it tells of roughly 2,000,000 people leaving Egypt. There is no record of them there. There is no record of any plagues. There is no evidence of their travels. All these events that should have left evidence and none is to be found. Worse yet, using Ussher, at the time of the Exodus Egypt controlled Canaan.

And oh my no! No chariot wheels have been found in the Red Sea. If you believe that I have a bridge that you should buy.
 

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
How did I miss your reply?
.....
You don't seem to understand. Laws of cleanliness or not, they would have left evidence. What is so hard to understand about that? There is a reason that no serious archaeologists take the myth seriously:

For you were (not) slaves in Egypt: The ancient memories behind the Exodus myth
Moses and the Exodus
The Exodus - Wikipedia

If you read the Bible literally it tells of roughly 2,000,000 people leaving Egypt. There is no record of them there. There is no record of any plagues. There is no evidence of their travels. All these events that should have left evidence and none is to be found. Worse yet, using Ussher, at the time of the Exodus Egypt controlled Canaan.

And oh my no! No chariot wheels have been found in the Red Sea. If you believe that I have a bridge that you should buy.

Lol.
For one thing, I don't believe Bishop Ussher had the chronology right. I've said that before, maybe not to you.

There is a lot of overlooked, ie., ignored, evidence:
1) Bahr Yussef - Wikipedia

Ask yourself: why would the ancient Egyptians give an ancient waterway, a Hebrew name?

More coming, later.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
How did I miss your reply?
.....


Lol.
For one thing, I don't believe Bishop Ussher had the chronology right. I've said that before, maybe not to you.

There is a lot of overlooked, ie., ignored, evidence:
1) Bahr Yussef - Wikipedia

Ask yourself: why would the ancient Egyptians give an ancient waterway, a Hebrew name?

More coming, later.
Fine, it does not matter. The.myths of the Bible fail regardless of the timeline used.

And it does not have a Hebrew name. It has an Arabic name. As often happens languages of adjoining countrues, they will have names that are almost the same and have similar roots.
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
let everything be established by the WITNESS of two (Josephus and Tacitus)... not what people think, who were never there, 2000 years later. PHD - Post Hole Diggers seeking today's fame. :D
Innocence Project - Help us put an end to wrongful convictions!

Here's a nice example of how reliable "witness" testimony is.

It's a site that collects cases of people that all spend time in jail, wrongly accused.
Nearly every single one of them, was put behind bars based on "eyewitness testimony".

When the data doesn't match the testimony, it's never the data that is incorrect.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
Innocence Project - Help us put an end to wrongful convictions!

Here's a nice example of how reliable "witness" testimony is.

It's a site that collects cases of people that all spend time in jail, wrongly accused.
Nearly every single one of them, was put behind bars based on "eyewitness testimony".

When the data doesn't match the testimony, it's never the data that is incorrect.
That is a fallacy.

That is what I said. The testimony that today's "Ex-Spurts" doesn't match the data that is available therefore today's testimonies are thrown out.

Either that or an appeal to authority fallacy.
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
That is a fallacy.

No, to say that data trumps mere claims and opinions, is not a fallacy.
Giving evidence to desmontrate that testimony oftenly leads to wrong conclusions, is not a fallacy.

To show that "testimony" really isn't that trustworthy by itself, is anything but a fallacy when the point being discussed is testimony........

That is what I said. The testimony that today's "Ex-Spurts" doesn't match the data that is available therefore today's testimonies are thrown out.

Ancient testimony, isn't data. It's testimony.

Also, conclusions of studies conducted by experts, aren't testimony...

You have it exactly backwards.

Either that or an appeal to authority fallacy.

Says the guy who's appealing to authority.

:rolleyes:


Also, I'm not appealing to authority. At best, I'm appealing to expertise. And not to expert opinion, but to the verifiable work of experts.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
No, to say that data trumps mere claims and opinions, is not a fallacy.
Giving evidence to desmontrate that testimony oftenly leads to wrong conclusions, is not a fallacy.

To show that "testimony" really isn't that trustworthy by itself, is anything but a fallacy when the point being discussed is testimony........



Ancient testimony, isn't data. It's testimony.

Also, conclusions of studies conducted by experts, aren't testimony...

You have it exactly backwards.



Says the guy who's appealing to authority.

:rolleyes:


Also, I'm not appealing to authority. At best, I'm appealing to expertise. And not to expert opinion, but to the verifiable work of experts.
LOL... well, at the least, we can agree to disagree. One persons "expert" is another person's unreliable source.
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
LOL... well, at the least, we can agree to disagree.

We can not.

When you say that the testimony of Tacitus and Josephus is NOT testimony but data instead, then you are just wrong - plain and simple.

When you appeal to their testimony as trumping all other evidence, then you ARE appealing to authority. Their authority to be exact. It means you value opinions / bare claims over actual data.

One persons "expert" is another person's unreliable source.

No.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
We can not.

When you say that the testimony of Tacitus and Josephus is NOT testimony but data instead, then you are just wrong - plain and simple.

When you appeal to their testimony as trumping all other evidence, then you ARE appealing to authority. Their authority to be exact. It means you value opinions / bare claims over actual data.



No.
And you have EVERY right to be wrong! Your "ex-spurt" missed the mark.
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
And you have EVERY right to be wrong! Your "ex-spurt" missed the mark.
How would you know, as you youself acknowledge that you never actually looked into it, that you aren't even interested and that you are content just appealing to the authority of the testimony of Tacitus at face value?


ps: your insistence on miss-spelling "expert" like that is extremely juvenile and only triggers me into take you even less seriously... Perhaps you should reflect on that a bit and try to have an adult level conversation.
 

sooda

Veteran Member
How's that? It was over 3,000 years ago! They didn't build structures. They were given Laws on cleanliness, so they didn't leave trash. They were constantly moving.

Too bad there is a ban on excavating the Red Sea, where those chariot wheels are. Neither Egypt nor Saudi Arabia allows it. (How convenient for you skeptics!)

But, near Nuweiba, there have been some evidence to surface in the form of pictures. Unfortunately, it's apparently illegal.

LOLOL. Who told you Saudi Arabia and Egypt wouldn't "allow" it? Was that one of Ron Wyatt's excuses? SCUBA diving in the Red Sea is very popular.

The depth of the sea in the northern part of the Gulf of Aqaba is very deep at over 900 metres, and even deeper to the south at over 1200 metres, the depth between Nuweiba and the Saudi coast is in places only around 90 metres deep and thus is like an underwater bridge.

BTW 90 Meters is 300 feet deep. Most SCUBA divers dive to 60 feet (like yours truly) Maximum for sports divers is about 130 feet.

Don't let these con artists treat you like a fool.
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
How did I miss your reply?
.....


Lol.
For one thing, I don't believe Bishop Ussher had the chronology right. I've said that before, maybe not to you.

There is a lot of overlooked, ie., ignored, evidence:
1) Bahr Yussef - Wikipedia

Ask yourself: why would the ancient Egyptians give an ancient waterway, a Hebrew name?

More coming, later.

Dude..................... Do you read the links you post? It says:

1. Bahr Yussef is an arabic name. It refers to prophet Yussef, which is the quranic counterpart of the biblical Joseph. This is what it is called TODAY.

2. at the time of ancient egypt, the name was NOT Bahr Yussef. It was Mer-Wer.

In ancient egypt, Mer-Wer is a mythological beast. Here's a statue of it:

upload_2019-5-28_14-31-35.png



What's all this about a "hebrew" name?
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
LOLOL. Who told you Saudi Arabia and Egypt wouldn't "allow" it? Was that one of Ron Wyatt's excuses? SCUBA diving in the Red Sea is very popular.

The depth of the sea in the northern part of the Gulf of Aqaba is very deep at over 900 metres, and even deeper to the south at over 1200 metres, the depth between Nuweiba and the Saudi coast is in places only around 90 metres deep and thus is like an underwater bridge.

BTW 90 Meters is 300 feet deep. Most SCUBA divers dive to 60 feet (like yours truly) Maximum for sports divers is about 130 feet.

Don't let these con artists treat you like a fool.

Ron Wyatt was the only fraud to find "chariot wheels" (actually modern brass valve wheels from ships). When one sees that one knows that massive amounts of Kool-Aid have been consumed.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
ps: your insistence on miss-spelling "expert" like that is extremely juvenile and only triggers me into take you even less seriously... Perhaps you should reflect on that a bit and try to have an adult level conversation.

Would love too. It's a two way street. But you have been a little dogmatic in your position.

So let me give you a second chance..

I assume you understand what happens during the Passover and who goes there.

What would be your estimate of Jerusalem's population during a Passover?
 

sooda

Veteran Member
Would love too. It's a two way street. But you have been a little dogmatic in your position.

So let me give you a second chance..

I assume you understand what happens during the Passover and who goes there.

What would be your estimate of Jerusalem's population during a Passover?
2000 years ago? Fewer than 15,000.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
2000 years ago? Fewer than 15,000.
Then you obviously have no understanding of the Passover. With at least 25,000 who live within the city walls, you are already WAAAY below even a conservative amount.
 

sooda

Veteran Member
Even conservtive
Then you obviously have no understanding of the Passover. With at least 25,000 who live within the city walls, you are already WAAAY below even a conservative amount.


Jerusalem never had a population that size.

Ancient Jerusalem: The Village, the Town, the City ...
https://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/daily/biblical-sites-places/jerusalem/ancient...
Jan 11, 2019 · In the Byzantine period (fourth–seventh centuries C.E.), Jerusalem was a Christian city. a Estimates of the city’s population are as high as 100,000 and then go down gradually to 70,000 to 60,000 to 50,000 to 25,000. Geva’s estimate: 15,000. In 637 C.E. the Muslims besieged Jerusalem; the period of Islamic Jerusalem commenced.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
Even conservtive


Jerusalem never had a population that size.

Ancient Jerusalem: The Village, the Town, the City ...
https://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/daily/biblical-sites-places/jerusalem/ancient...
Jan 11, 2019 · In the Byzantine period (fourth–seventh centuries C.E.), Jerusalem was a Christian city. a Estimates of the city’s population are as high as 100,000 and then go down gradually to 70,000 to 60,000 to 50,000 to 25,000. Geva’s estimate: 15,000. In 637 C.E. the Muslims besieged Jerusalem; the period of Islamic Jerusalem commenced.
Doesn't take into account that it was a Passover when the Romans besieged it.

Luke 2;41 Every year Jesus’ parents went to worship at Jerusalem during the Passover festival. 42 When Jesus turned twelve, his parents took him to Jerusalem to observe the Passover, as was their custom.

As an example... how does the population increase in Mecca once a year although only about 22,000 live there?
 

sooda

Veteran Member
Doesn't take into account that it was a Passover when the Romans besieged it.

Luke 2;41 Every year Jesus’ parents went to worship at Jerusalem during the Passover festival. 42 When Jesus turned twelve, his parents took him to Jerusalem to observe the Passover, as was their custom.

As an example... how does the population increase in Mecca once a year although only about 22,000 live there?

The population of all of Palestine was never more than 700,000...

The population of the whole Arabian peninsula wasn't much bigger than that in the 1920s....

Epic stories require HUGE numbers.
 
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