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Featured ARCHEOLOGY and THE BIBLE

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by tosca1, May 20, 2019.

  1. Kenny

    Kenny Face to face with my Father
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    You can believe what you want to believe.
     
  2. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

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    Of course... You can also believe in the tooth fairy if you choose. Archaeologists from Israel and all over the world have been digging for 200 years now.. In the time of David it was less than 10 acres.

    By the time of Christ most Jews lived outside of Palestine.. in Rome, Alexandria, Aleppo, Damascus, Anatolia, Persia, Elephantine Island and all around the Mediterranean. Palestine couldn't support a large population. They didn't have enough water, pasture or arable land.
     
  3. Kenny

    Kenny Face to face with my Father
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    Riiiight,,, and you can believe that I'm a computer generated response if you choose to, but it is still what it is.

    And, of course, the size of Jerusalem means absolutely NO ONE lived outside it's gates... of course, just like Washington D.C.

    And, of course, no one ever comes to Passover - it is just the city folk of Washington DC,it's like no one ever goes to Washington DC.

    :facepalm:
     
  4. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

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    Why on earth would I think you are a computer-generated response?

    Take some time to read and study the history of the first century... You are proving every negative stereotype about the notion that religious people reject education and that is NOT so. Shame on you.
     
  5. Kenny

    Kenny Face to face with my Father
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    For the same reason you said:

    And it will do you no good to use ad hominem
     
  6. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    Let me just say that the details, especially when dealing with either history or religion, are always a bugger, and when both are put together there's hardly anything that one can be absolutely certain of.
     
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  7. Hockeycowboy

    Hockeycowboy Well-Known Member
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    SCUBA diving is not archeology.
    Due to items being stolen, Egypt is strict with foreigners searching for artifacts, even legitimate foreigners.


    Archaeology meets politics: Spring comes to ancient Egypt

    It's an older article (8yrs old), but nothing's changed. Not for foreign archeologists.

    Their Ministry of Antiquities is always in turmoil, it seems.

    Figures!
     
  8. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    Yep, countries sometimes get a bit ticked off when foreigners want to dig up their past. Of course that is no excuse to believe a known fraud.

    Here is an image of a "chariot wheel" found by Ron Wyatt from one of his websites:

    [​IMG]

    Chariot Wheels in the Red Sea

    It is actually a modern brass ship's valve wheel.

    No need to go to Egypt, you can get these off of E-bay:


    [​IMG]
     
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  9. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

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    Amateur archaeologists aren't welcome in any country.
     
  10. TagliatelliMonster

    TagliatelliMonster Veteran Member

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    :rolleyes:

    Irony....

    I don't have the knowledge required to give such an estimate.
    I don't have any knowledge about the subject whatsoever.


    I made only one point here, really.
    Given that there are studies by experts on the subject that conclude different numbers then the ones cited by ancient authors with a story of their own, and thereby conclude that these authors are "almost certainly" exaggerating their numbers...

    If you then counter that with elevating the ancient authors' status to near infallible on that point, consistently refering to these experts as "ex-spurts" (what does it even mean?) while also acknowledging that you have not read these studies and even aren't interested in learning about what they have to say....

    Who's being dogmatic here, then?

    And yes, assuming that these studies were done properly, if all the data suggests something different then some testimonial account, then the data wins. Every time.

    As my favorite quote goes: If reality disagrees with your beliefs, it's not reality that is incorrect.
     
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  11. Kenny

    Kenny Face to face with my Father
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    The Passover is a national call for Israelites to come to Jerusalem to offering sacrifices to God. Bethlehem was the place where they brought and basically held all the lambs that were going to be offered as a sacrifice. It was the custom that still was being exercised as Mary, Joseph, Jesus and the caravan that they went with went just 20 years before.

    Therefore, 100,000 is a conservative estimate.

    Your estimator would be correct if there was no Passover.
     
  12. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

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    This means that anywhere from 706 to 770 sacrificial lambs were needed each year plus the hundreds more lambs needed for the feast of Pesach (Passover) as well as for the other religious rituals.

    Everyone in Israel recognized Bethlehem as being synonymous with sacrificial lambs. Micah, the Hebrew prophet who foretold of haMashiach's (the Messiah's) birth in Bethlehem, also prophesied, "And you, O Tower of the Flock (in Hebrew, Migdal Eder), the stronghold of the daughter of Zion, unto you shall it come, even the first dominion; the kingdom shall come to the daughter of Jerusalem" (Micah 4:8). Although obscure and often overlooked, Micah disclosed that the Messiah, who embodied the hope of the Kingdom of Israel, "was to be revealed from Migdal Eder - 'the Tower of the Flock'." Close by where the shepherds were camped that night, in the northern part of Bethlehem on the road to Jerusalem (less than an hour's journey by foot), was the tower known as Migdal Eder, the "watch-tower of the flock." This was the station where shepherds brought their flocks destined for sacrifices in the Temple. For animals found as far from Jerusalem to the north of Bethlehem and within that circuit on every side, the males were offered as burnt-offerings, the females as peace-offerings (Mishnah, Shekalim 7:4).

    On the night in which Yeshua was born, the angelic message came to those priests of the Temple whose duties had been designated, often from their youth, to "keeping watch over their flock." These were not just any flock and herd. The shepherds who kept them were men who were specifically trained for this royal task. They were educated in what an animal that was to be sacrificed had to be and it was their job to make sure that none of the animals were hurt, damaged or blemished. During lambing season the sheep were brought to the tower from the fields, as the lower level functioned as the birthing room for sacrificial lambs. Being themselves under special rabbinical care, these priests would strictly maintain a ceremonially clean birthing place.

    The Birth - Revisited | Since there were no directions provided, where would the shepherds have known to go?
     
  13. SkepticThinker

    SkepticThinker Veteran Member

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    How is that ad hominem?
     
  14. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    Literalists tend to take any perceived insult as an ad hominem fallacy. It does not matter how many times their error is explained to them. For some reason they do not seem to understand the differene between:

    "You are stupid, therefore you are wrong" and "You are stupid, and you are wrong".
     
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  15. Kenny

    Kenny Face to face with my Father
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    LOL Actually, your statement (not you) is stupid and therefore you are wrong. :D
     
  16. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

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    Literalism was an organized Protestant effort in 1919 to oppose modernity.
     
  17. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    No, it is clearly not "stupid". That you do not know the difference between the two is why you are constantly making false accusations of ad hominem fallacies.
     
  18. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

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  19. Kenny

    Kenny Face to face with my Father
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    You are too serious. :D You need to learn how to lighten up a little :D Enjoy the ride.
     
    #159 Kenny, May 29, 2019
    Last edited: May 29, 2019
  20. Hockeycowboy

    Hockeycowboy Well-Known Member
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    What?!

    Excerpt from Josephus' Bellum Judaicum, summary by Michael McGoodwin:
    "The Idumaeans attempt to surrender. The last walls [of Jerusalem] are taken, more slaughter. Josephus estimates that 97,000 prisoners were taken in the war, and that 1,100,000 perished during the siege (Tacitus estimates that there were 600,000 under siege). "

    Josephus (Flavius) Jewish War Summary
     
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