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Applying scrutiny to your beliefs

SigurdReginson

Grēne Mann
Premium Member
What method or methods do you use in testing if your beliefs are true or not? Do you apply different methods for testing different things in life, or do you test all things in life using only one method?

How confident are you that these tests work, and would you be willing to change the method(s) if a more reliable method came along?

Why do you feel the method(s) you utilize now work the best, and can you present tangible results that you could show others using these methods?

These questions are extremely vague, so feel free to explain things in more depth to fill in the gaps if you so desire. If you have questions begging more specific examples for clarification, feel free to ask. I hope others will answer with their perspectives as well.

Please be respectful in interacting with others, but I do encourage tough questions if any cross your minds. :)
 

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
In practice I use science, logic, inter-subjective social values, personal values and combinations here off.
As far as I can't tell there is no one universal method.
 

SigurdReginson

Grēne Mann
Premium Member
In practice I use science, logic, inter-subjective social values, personal values and combinations here off.
As far as I can't tell there is no one universal method.

Why do you choose those methods over others? Why have you been convinced that those methods lead you to the best results?

I've known more than a few people who only use a single religious text as the sole factor in verifying their beliefs. Why does your method work better than theirs, or others?
 

Wildstar

Member
What method or methods do you use in testing if your beliefs are true or not? Do you apply different methods for testing different things in life, or do you test all things in life using only one method?

How confident are you that these tests work, and would you be willing to change the method(s) if a more reliable method came along?

Why do you feel the method(s) you utilize now work the best, and can you present tangible results that you could show others using these methods?

These questions are extremely vague, so feel free to explain things in more depth to fill in the gaps if you so desire. If you have questions begging more specific examples for clarification, feel free to ask. I hope others will answer with their perspectives as well.

Please be respectful in interacting with others, but I do encourage tough questions if any cross your minds. :)


I used to almost scientific method my beliefs to death. However, seeing as there was no benefit from doing this, outside of being given props by atheists, I decided to just enjoy life, accept what I experience to be real and strive for continual improvement of myself.
 

SigurdReginson

Grēne Mann
Premium Member
I used to almost scientific method my beliefs to death. However, seeing as there was no benefit from doing this, outside of being given props by atheists, I decided to just enjoy life, accept what I experience to be real and strive for continual improvement of myself.

It sounds like you are happier living life this way.

What do you attribute this happiness to? Do you feel as though scrutinizing your beliefs in such a scientific way was an exhausting or troublesome thing? Do you feel your beliefs now might not as accurately define reality as they did before, or vice versa?

Also, I'd be curious to know your thoughts on subjective vs. objective reality.
 

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
Why do you choose those methods over others? Why have you been convinced that those methods lead you to the best results?

I've known more than a few people who only use a single religious text as the sole factor in verifying their beliefs. Why does your method work better than theirs, or others?

My method works better for me and as far as I can tell theirs work better for them. I can only do your better subjectively, hence better is to whom and individual.
 

SigurdReginson

Grēne Mann
Premium Member
My method works better for me and as far as I can tell theirs work better for them. I can only do your better subjectively, hence better is to whom and individual.

Hmmm... Would you say there are methods that are overall better or worse than others, or is it only a personal preference?
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
What method or methods do you use in testing if your beliefs are true or not? Do you apply different methods for testing different things in life, or do you test all things in life using only one method?

How confident are you that these tests work, and would you be willing to change the method(s) if a more reliable method came along?

Why do you feel the method(s) you utilize now work the best, and can you present tangible results that you could show others using these methods?

These questions are extremely vague, so feel free to explain things in more depth to fill in the gaps if you so desire. If you have questions begging more specific examples for clarification, feel free to ask. I hope others will answer with their perspectives as well.

Please be respectful in interacting with others, but I do encourage tough questions if any cross your minds. :)

I believe that for many, the questions are now in the past tense, as minds are made up.
i.e. What method did you use?

I believe it's a false assumption to assume that people have never questioned their belief system.
 

SigurdReginson

Grēne Mann
Premium Member
I believe that for many, the questions are now in the past tense, as minds are made up.
i.e. What method did you use?

I believe it's a false assumption to assume that people have never questioned their belief system.

I would agree for the most part. Usually folks find a system that works and settle in. I'm curious to pick people's brains and figure out how/why they did this, or actively do this now. Some people crave stability in their beliefs, while others crave accuracy. Not to say they both can't coexist, but people usually do emphasize one over the other, I find. :)
 

Viker

Häxan
Is this where I should be/what I should do?

Does this matter and will it improve my footing in my path?

Do I really believe this?

Can I grow any more with this?
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
I would agree for the most part. Usually folks find a system that works and settle in. I'm curious to pick people's brains and figure out how/why they did this, or actively do this now. Some people crave stability in their beliefs, while others crave accuracy. Not to say they both can't coexist, but people usually do emphasize one over the other, I find. :)
A lot depends on age. In general, the longer you're at something, the solider it gets. There are exceptions, but I don't know too many folks over 60 who are constantly picking their own brains over something they've practiced for 30 years or so. Young'uns, sure.
 

SigurdReginson

Grēne Mann
Premium Member
Is this where I should be/what I should do?

Do your ideas of where you should be or what you should do change over time?

Does this matter and will it improve my footing in my path?

How do you determine what matters? How committed are you to the path you are on now?

Do I really believe this?

Does whether or not you actually believe in something's existence determine it's effective value? For example; let's say that practicing sigil Magick produces results you find useful in your life, but you don't believe magic actually exists as some kind of tangible force. How do you reconcile beneficial value when it flies in the face of what you are actually convinced of?

Can I grow any more with this?

I feel like this is a foundational question that can't be broken down more finely than this. :)

Still, there are some who would argue that one shouldn't abandon a system that they have wrapped their beliefs around even when it seems to be preventing them from growing further - that they just need to wait it out or work towards moving around what one is held up on. There's comfort to be had in a belief system with no nasty surprises.

Speaking for myself, I prefer your perspective on this!

Thank you so much for your thoughts! :D
 
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Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
A long time ago I found humor and truth in "don't believe everything you think". So I assume some of my beliefs are wrong but my focus is on putting the essence of what I believe into practice.

I think I'm more about practices than beliefs. Being courteous to other people can be done from any set of religious beliefs. Personally, I assume very little about my beliefs, especially in the duality mindset of right/wrong. Belief, to me, is belief, and it's neither right nor wrong. That way of dual thinking causes a ton of problems on this planet.

My Guru, on this topic: "Well ... (usually a reasonably lengthy pause) that's not what we believe."
 
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Magical Wand

Active Member
I've known more than a few people who only use a single religious text as the sole factor in verifying their beliefs. Why does your method work better than theirs, or others?

Because I start with what is self-evident to my senses and reason, i.e., simple rules of logic plus sense-perception. And the fact is that these people also follow these rules. Once you start asking questions to them about their religious beliefs -- beliefs that seem to contradict basic experience or the rules of thought -- they will struggle to respond because they haven't thought deeply about the issue before and that's why they believe the way they do. They use compartmentalization to avoid cognitive dissonance, but it is possible to attack that by appealing to neutral/common starting points.

As philosopher Michael Tooley pointed out: “The presuppositionalist objection to evidentialism set out in the previous section is open to a decisive answer. For the presuppositionalist claims that we all start from worldviews, and that we decide on the basis of those worldviews which beliefs are plausible and which not. But if there are states of affairs that we [all] are directly aware of, and thus beliefs that are non‐inferentially justified on the basis of such direct awareness, and if, in addition, all other justified beliefs ultimately are justified via their relations to non‐inferentially justified beliefs [i.e., axioms], then there is a natural starting point for any inquiry into whether a given belief is justified.” (A Companion to Atheism and Philosophy, p.317)

Thus, believers and atheists must use the same method to discover truth since both begin with the same starting points, as theologian and professor of philosophy Paul Feinberg observed:

"It is not as if the believer has one set of logical rules and the unbeliever has another entirely different set of logical rules. These rules of thought are a common ground between believers and unbelievers. ... For instance, both believers and unbelievers think [by] using the law of non-contradiction. ... This does not mean that there is agreement on all areas of human experience. … But because there is some agreement on the rules of thought and other areas of common human experience, we do not simply have to presuppose the truth of Christianity. We can present evidence and debate its meaning." (Five Views on Apologetics)
 
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SigurdReginson

Grēne Mann
Premium Member
A long time ago I found humor and truth in "don't believe everything you think". So I assume some of my beliefs are wrong but my focus is on putting the essence of what I believe into practice.

Hmmm... Would you say that you value a more intuitive understanding of the world above a perceivably more accurate understanding of the world, or no?

There's definitely a lot of incorrect things we will believe in due to living a subjectively experienced life, but that inaccuracy can be chipped away with some effort. Sometimes a lot of effort yields only a minimal amount of results, while sometimes just looking at something on a surface level will yield a lot of insight.

Do you invest much research into a given thing before moving on, or do you follow a rabbit hole all the way down, usually?
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
Personally, I assume very little about my beliefs, especially in the duality mindset of right/wrong. Belief, to me, is belief, and it's neither right nor wrong. That way of dual thinking causes a ton of problems on this planet.

I'm in the non-dual camp but my mind lives in duality so it's a constant tension.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
I'm in the non-dual camp but my mind lives in duality so it's a constant tension.
I meant duality in the other sense ... as in pairs of opposites. Generally in Hinduism non-duality refers to monism, or that God permeates His/Her creation, versus duality, which means God is eternally separate from man, a puppeteer.

I'll have to find a better word than duality for this. Perhaps just right/wrong.
 
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