"Anyone who tells you he has some way of leading you to spiritual enlightenment...."

[Sunstone]

"Anyone who tells you he has some way of leading you to spiritual enlightenment is like somebody who picks your pocket and sells you your own watch...." -- Alan Watts (c.1955)

Is this true? Why or why not?

 

[lewisnotmiller]

"Anyone who tells you he has some way of leading you to spiritual enlightenment is like somebody who picks your pocket and sells you your own watch...." -- Alan Watts (c.1955)

Is this true? Why or why not?

I like that quote. As is often the case with humour, it's the edge that carries it beyond mere pith.
My read on it is that each individual needs to lead themselves to spiritual enlightenment. Perhaps there are those who may assist in that, but ultimately the general thrust of the quote seems to hold true for me.
Although the atheist in me is demanding I say 'Spirit? What's a spirit anyway? Show me a spirit. Go on, show me. You can't, can you? Thought so!!!'

Ahem.

 

[Aiviu]

True. Life needs to be lived from the person himself to have something to be enlightend about.

 

[Lyndon]

Since Alan Watts was a big follower of the Buddha, who taught the road to enlightenment, and didn't pick your pocket, I wouldn't take the statement too seriously even if it is genuine!!

 

[StarryNightshade]

Is this true? Why or why not?

Sometimes a teacher is needed. Not for everyone of course, and one could argue that at a certain point one may no longer be needed, but having a teacher/leader/guru isn't an inherently negative thing.

I think the quote is too generalizing.

 

[bobhikes]

"Anyone who tells you he has some way of leading you to spiritual enlightenment is like somebody who picks your pocket and sells you your own watch...." -- Alan Watts (c.1955)

Is this true? Why or why not?

True because spiritual enlightenment can only come from self awareness and anyone who is enlightened knows this, so you would be dealing with a con man.

 

[bobhikes]

Since Alan Watts was a big follower of the Buddha, who taught the road to enlightenment, and didn't pick your pocket, I wouldn't take the statement too seriously even if it is genuine!!

Buddhists and Buddha did not and still do not seek converts. If you approach them they will encourage you to seek you own path. They will teach if you are persistent.

 

[Lyndon]

Not true, Buddhists sent Missionaries to spread Buddhist teachings all over their known world, as far as China, Mongolia, and Japan, certainly as far west as Iran if not further.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Sometimes a teacher is needed. Not for everyone of course, and one could argue that at a certain point one may no longer be needed, but having a teacher/leader/guru isn't an inherently negative thing.

I think the quote is too generalizing.

Out of interest, what would the teacher teach?

 

[Taylor Seraphim]

"Anyone who tells you he has some way of leading you to spiritual enlightenment is like somebody who picks your pocket and sells you your own watch...." -- Alan Watts (c.1955)

Is this true? Why or why not?

Most are out to gain from you, usually in the form of self-validation.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Since Alan Watts was a big follower of the Buddha, who taught the road to enlightenment, and didn't pick your pocket, I wouldn't take the statement too seriously even if it is genuine!!

Another of his quotes which perhaps offers an idea of his overall philosophy, then...

You don't look out there for God, something in the sky, you look in you.

Taken in one sense, at least, that would mean that nobody can be brought to spritual enlightenment unless they do it themselves.
This doesn't preclude assistance or guidance, I would suppose.

 

[Lyndon]

Alan Watts was an alcoholic, I don't know how seriously he took his own teachings??

 

[Augustus]

"Anyone who tells you he has some way of leading you to spiritual enlightenment is like somebody who picks your pocket and sells you your own watch...." -- Alan Watts (c.1955)

Is this true? Why or why not?

In my opinion, something important to remember is that aphorisms shouldn't be interpreted as being 'true' or 'false' (implying that they are always correct or can be 'falsified' by specific exceptions to the rule), they are useful if the contain a general aspect of truth.

In this case, the idea that you already have the key to enlightenment inside you and that you take yourself there through your own actions rather than those of the 'leader' is a fair enough statement and so the aphorism is meaningful.

Of course, people can help you along the way and this could be interpreted as 'leading', but aphorisms shouldn't be quibbled over, as they are not meant to be perfectly true in all situations. (i.e. a stitch in time saves nine, and if it ain't broke don't fix it are directly contradictory but both are excellent aphorisms)

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Alan Watts was an alcoholic, I don't know how seriously he took his own teachings??

We could let him answer that question I guess....

“How could he be a genuine mystic and be so addicted to nicotine and alcohol?’ Or have occasional shudders of anxiety? Or be sexually interested in women? Or lack enthusiasm for physical exercise? Or have any need for money?

Such people have in mind an idealized vision of the mystic as a person wholly free from fear and attachment, who sees within and without, and on all sides, only the translucent forms of a single divine energy which is everlasting love and delight, as which and from which he effortlessly radiates peace, charity, and joy. What an enviable situation! We, too, would like to be one of those, but as we start to meditate and look into ourselves we find mostly a quaking and palpitating mess, and that this, in turn, is a natural form of the universe like rain and frost, slugs and snails, flies and disease. When the “true mystic” sees flies and disease as translucent forms of the divine, that does not abolish them. I - making no hard-and-fast distinction between inner and outer experience - see my quaking mess as a form of the divine, and that doesn’t abolish it either. but at least I can live with it.

Perhaps all this is a way of saying that I see the same problems in being natural, genuine, or authentic as the saints have found in their efforts to be truly humble, contrite, and in love with God. You can’t make it without faking it, for the real thing is a grace not of your own making, which comes upon some people as involuntarily as their lovely eyes or golden hair. It is thus that by grace or by nature (take your choice) I am a mystic in spite of myself, remaining as much of an irreducible rascal as I am, as standing example of God’s continuing compassion for sinners or, if you will, of Buddha-nature in a dog, or of light shining in darkness. Come to think of it, in what else could it?"

Source : In My Own Way: An Autobiography: Alan W. Watts (pg 211-212)

 

[StarryNightshade]

Out of interest, what would the teacher teach?

Philosophy, theology, methods, practice.

What the student decides to do with the teachings (whether to stick with them or go their own way) is completely up to them.

 

[George-ananda]

"Anyone who tells you he has some way of leading you to spiritual enlightenment is like somebody who picks your pocket and sells you your own watch...." -- Alan Watts (c.1955)

Is this true? Why or why not?

It's true in the sense that enlightenment is really waking up to the truth already in us and hidden behind the fog of seeing this all as separate egos at work. You don't need anything you don't already have. You didn't know you always had it and when it is given back you, you can then can appreciate it. I don't think he means to be disparaging of spiritual leaders, it's just that they cause you to appreciate what you always had; an inner core of the divine fogged over by a world of many egos.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

"Anyone who tells you he has some way of leading you to spiritual enlightenment is like somebody who picks your pocket and sells you your own watch...." -- Alan Watts (c.1955)

Is this true? Why or why not?

I've found that most peddlers of "spiritual enlightenment" and other such charlatans are much more insidious: they simply talk you into giving them your watch and your money, and make you glad for the opportunity. Sadly, a huge percentage of people are natural marks.

 

[bobhikes]

Not true, Buddhists sent Missionaries to spread Buddhist teachings all over their known world, as far as China, Mongolia, and Japan, certainly as far west as Iran if not further.

This is how I understand it from reading about them I have never encountered one personally. From budsas.org

Buddhist missionaries have no need or desire to convert those who already have a proper religion to practise. If people are satisfied with their own religion, then, there is no need for Buddhist missionaries to convert them. They give their full support to missionaries of other faiths if their idea is to convert the wicked, evil, and uncultured people to a religious way of life. Buddhists are happy to see the progress of other religions so long as they truly help people to lead a religious way of life according to their faith and enjoy peace, harmony and understanding. On the other hand, Buddhist missionaries deplore the attitude of certain missionaries who disturb the followers of other religions, since there is no reason for them to create an unhealthy atmosphere of competition for converts if their aim is only to teach people to lead a religious way of life.

 

[Orbit]

"Anyone who tells you he has some way of leading you to spiritual enlightenment is like somebody who picks your pocket and sells you your own watch...." -- Alan Watts (c.1955)

Is this true? Why or why not?

This is my favorite Alan Watts quote and I think it is absolutely true. Everything you need is within you, and no one can give it to you. What's magical is the process of realizing that. Can people help you realize that? Sure they can, but that's entirely different from selling enlightenment.

 

[Acim]

"Anyone who tells you he has some way of leading you to spiritual enlightenment is like somebody who picks your pocket and sells you your own watch...." -- Alan Watts (c.1955)

Is this true? Why or why not?

I would say mostly true. For sure not literally true, but don't think it was meant to be literal.

I actually wonder about the second part. I get that it is meant to reference stealing something from you and then selling it back as if to make a profit off of you on your own stuff. That seems like a worldly thing to do, or how I see government possibly working. Like: this land is my land, this land is your land, here's a park where you are freely able to go. But first you must pay taxes. Now go enjoy that free park. Oh, but wait, there's a fee to get into the park. Enjoy the free park!

Thus, I see the statement as being possibly about more than spiritual enlightenment, but really about how any leading/teaching occurs. Gotta be willing to relinquish authority to another, then be willing to sacrifice, to then get on a path where you get back what you relinquished in the first place (authority, and whatever was sacrificed, i.e. money).

Me, as a spiritual person truly see it as the answer lies within. I routinely play the role of student to people who are not self identifying as teacher, but who are teaching nonetheless. Whereas it seems many spiritual seekers need an outer guru to be shown the way and then make claims of "in no way am I a guru." Which I always question, how would you know what a guru is, if you don't have that understanding already within. Same goes with perfection. People claiming they are in no way perfect, when it would seem you'd have to understand perfection (completely) to be able to make that sort of claim.