Any questions?

[Storm]

How does the diversity of life demand "sidhe" what are "sidhe" exactly?

Sidhe are all the life forms who don't require a physical body. The first question is harder to answer... it just seems obvious to me. Life takes SO MANY forms, why not sidhe?

 

[NoGodNeeded]

So they are concious without physical bodies?

 

[Storm]

Yes..

 

[NoGodNeeded]

So life requires rhys arn and cosmos, yet cosmos isn't required? Doesn't that mean that sidhe aren't living, alive?

 

[Storm]

So life requires rhys arn and cosmos, yet cosmos isn't required? Doesn't that mean that sidhe aren't living, alive?

Not really....

Put it this way, there are biological life forms without individuated rhys (like earthworms). Sidhe are just life forms without their own matter.

 

[NoGodNeeded]

And what suggests this?

 

[Storm]

And what suggests this?

Well, I believe in such beings because I've encountered them (in my days as a practicing witch). Is that what you were asking?

 

[NoGodNeeded]

Yes, and how have you encountered them?

 

[Storm]

I think that's rather off-topic for this thread. Would you be interested in discussing it in the chat room?
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Join the chat

 

[NoGodNeeded]

Not tonight, unfortunately, I've got a few things to do to prepare for class tomorrow, but maybe tomorrow evening.

 

[Storm]

Aw, ok.

 

[LuisDantas]

Thanks for sharing, Storm, and for inviting us.

My first impressions are along these lines.

1) You seem to be basically a pantheist with a twist: people are in fact agents of God in its own pursuit to become better, more complete.

2) Your path is definitely not so much one of feeling better as one of being more aware of how reality works and at what price. You seem to be one of those people who would rather face unpleasant news sooner rather than later, and face front if at all possible.

3) The main motivation of your path is apparently that of learning to be in peace and motivated while still facing existence wholesale, up to and including - perhaps even favoring - the most painful and depressing experiences. The ultimate personal goal seems to be to conquer fear and moral shortcomings out of sheer courage and self-honesty. At the same time, you seem to be most convinced that ultimately we all are simple agents, or even experiments, of a very much Higher Power, albeit one that is not quite Supreme and is in fact ever growing in maturity and complexity.

Quite an interesting theology, all things told. I don't see anything particularly questionable about it, although it most certainly demands lots of Faith. There is a hint of an angry streak about it, however. A legitimate and sober one, but angry nonetheless. I can almost feel the thirst just from reading you.

 

[Storm]

Thanks for sharing, Storm, and for inviting us.

Thank you for accepting!

My first impressions are along these lines.

1) You seem to be basically a pantheist with a twist: people are in fact agents of God in its own pursuit to become better, more complete.

Panentheist, but they're very similar. Still, even for a panentheist, I'm rather weird.

2) Your path is definitely not so much one of feeling better as one of being more aware of how reality works and at what price. You seem to be one of those people who would rather face unpleasant news sooner rather than later, and face front if at all possible.

Thank you, I try.

3) The main motivation of your path is apparently that of learning to be in peace and motivated while still facing existence wholesale, up to and including - perhaps even favoring - the most painful and depressing experiences. The ultimate personal goal seems to be to conquer fear and moral shortcomings out of sheer courage and self-honesty. At the same time, you seem to be most convinced that ultimately we all are simple agents, or even experiments, of a very much Higher Power, albeit one that is not quite Supreme and is in fact ever growing in maturity and complexity.

I don't know that I'd call us experiments, but by and large that's a fair summary.

Quite an interesting theology, all things told. I don't see anything particularly questionable about it, although it most certainly demands lots of Faith. There is a hint of an angry streak about it, however. A legitimate and sober one, but angry nonetheless. I can almost feel the thirst just from reading you.

Is there? Howso?

Thank you for the compliments.

 

[LuisDantas]

Is there? Howso?

Thank you for the compliments.

You're welcome.

The hints are very subtle, and I'm cheating and quite possibly even projecting because I've learned a bit about your history.

Still, I'd say that your mention of Hitler was very telling, particularly because you did not put him down there with Osama Bin Laden and company.

The interesting thing about your theology, for those of us who aren't you, is how nicely it explains some of your drives, such as the somewhat direct and not always patient way that you have with people.

 

[Storm]

You're welcome.

The hints are very subtle, and I'm cheating and quite possibly even projecting because I've learned a bit about your history.

Still, I'd say that your mention of Hitler was very telling, particularly because you did not put him down there with Osama Bin Laden and company.

The interesting thing about your theology, for those of us who aren't you, is how nicely it explains some of your drives, such as the somewhat direct and not always patient way that you have with people.

Fair enough.

 

[Storm]

Luis, I'm not sure what you think the inclusion of Hitler as an Avatar tells, so I'm going to explain why I think I think he was (probably) an Avatar while Osama bin Laden is (probably) not.

Firstly, allow me to note that one can never know for sure. If, after my explanation, you feel Hitler's inclusion is inappropriate, well... we've found the topic of our first debate. woohoo

Anyway, I'll start with a reflection on the Elders and their purpose. They love us, yes, and with love comes compassion. But theirs is a ruthless compassion. They want what's best for us, but they see what that is more clearly than we do. To them, suffering is an effective goad to our growth, and they will not hesitate to inflict it where it proves efficient.

Which brings us to Hitler. I believe humanity was heading down a very dark road before he came along. We were divorcing science from morality. Eugenics and anti-Semitism were quite popular. Hitler's regime skipped ahead of us on that road, and showed us where it led while we still had time to turn away. He served as a warning, and for a miracle, we heeded.

This is precisely what an Elder would do: hold up a mirror, and let us make our own choice. They guide; they do not force.

In contrast, I see no lesson in OBL's blind hatred. Also, Avatars are relatively rare, and not necessarily influential. Larson was an impoverished playwrite, for example. A much better rule of thumb is when a person embodies a lesson, but even that isn't a sure thing.

In any case, it's not that OBL can't be an Avatar. I simply haven't seen an indicator that he is.

Your thoughts?

 

[LuisDantas]

Luis, I'm not sure what you think the inclusion of Hitler as an Avatar tells, so I'm going to explain why I think I think he was (probably) an Avatar while Osama bin Laden is (probably) not.

Firstly, allow me to note that one can never know for sure. If, after my explanation, you feel Hitler's inclusion is inappropriate, well... we've found the topic of our first debate. woohoo

Anyway, I'll start with a reflection on the Elders and their purpose. They love us, yes, and with love comes compassion. But theirs is a ruthless compassion. They want what's best for us, but they see what that is more clearly than we do. To them, suffering is an effective goad to our growth, and they will not hesitate to inflict it where it proves efficient.

That seems odd to me. I'm not much of a Maltheist, and I think that a ruthless deity (or Elder, in this case) is by definition a failed power.

Which brings us to Hitler. I believe humanity was heading down a very dark road before he came along. We were divorcing science from morality. Eugenics and anti-Semitism were quite popular. Hitler's regime skipped ahead of us on that road, and showed us where it led while we still had time to turn away. He served as a warning, and for a miracle, we heeded.

So you see Hitler as a warning against racism and lack of moral criteria in science? The first I can see, the second I wonder about.

This is precisely what an Elder would do: hold up a mirror, and let us make our own choice. They guide; they do not force.

IYO, how successful was Hitler in that mission you see him as having?

In contrast, I see no lesson in OBL's blind hatred. Also, Avatars are relatively rare, and not necessarily influential. Larson was an impoverished playwrite, for example. A much better rule of thumb is when a person embodies a lesson, but even that isn't a sure thing.

In any case, it's not that OBL can't be an Avatar. I simply haven't seen an indicator that he is.

Your thoughts?

I was thinking more about Hitler, really. I happen to think that he is very over-rated by detractors and sympathizers alike. By your conceptions I would perhaps consider him a warning against blind obedience and good old insanity, and of the need for sober rebellion against authority. Not a particularly succesful warning, but a warning all the same.

But I get the feeling that you see Hitler as far more of a mover and shaker than I do, and therefore by your terminology I doubt that he was an Avatar at all.

I also disagree about OBL. He does not strike me as a vessel of blind hatred, and certainly not as much so as Hitler was. He, too, is over-rated, but not nearly as pathetic as Hitler, who was as tragic a figure as they come. Have you considered calling Hitler a Droichan? He fits the bill to at "T" IMO.

 

[Storm]

That seems odd to me. I'm not much of a Maltheist, and I think that a ruthless deity (or Elder, in this case) is by definition a failed power.

It's a paradox, I'll grant you. But in the end, all that they do is for the goal of assisting our Becoming.

That said, while on a surface level, Elders are quite close to theistic God concepts, they are not God. They're not omni-anything, or "perfect," whatever that means. They're siblings, doing their best to help us learn.

So you see Hitler as a warning against racism and lack of moral criteria in science? The first I can see, the second I wonder about.

Of many things. It was more "put all these things together and this is where you'll end up" than "this one thing is bad, don't do it."

As for science, it's a constant struggle for our morality to keep up with our technology, but it's a necessary one. Science is amoral, as likely to produce nuclear warheads as life saving vaccines. This is a simple fact that we must bear in mind.

IYO, how successful was Hitler in that mission you see him as having?

Good question, and I'm honestly not sure. The initial shock is wearing off, and it remains to be seen if we've taken the message to heart. Some days, I'm more optimistic than others.

I was thinking more about Hitler, really. I happen to think that he is very over-rated by detractors and sympathizers alike. By your conceptions I would perhaps consider him a warning against blind obedience and good old insanity, and of the need for sober rebellion against authority. Not a particularly succesful warning, but a warning all the same.

Those were factors, as well. I have no objection.

But I get the feeling that you see Hitler as far more of a mover and shaker than I do, and therefore by your terminology I doubt that he was an Avatar at all.

I see him as a catalyst. All the elements were already present, ready to blow. He lit the fuse.

I also disagree about OBL. He does not strike me as a vessel of blind hatred, and certainly not as much so as Hitler was. He, too, is over-rated, but not nearly as pathetic as Hitler, who was as tragic a figure as they come.

Do you see a lesson in OBL, though?

I don't think he's a raving lunatic, just to be clear. In fact, I sometimes doubt that he hates us at all. Could be he's just using the hatred of others to further his own ambition.

Now, I'm not an expert on either man, and I'm open to hearing any argument you care to make. This is a DIR, though, so if that's your wish, you should start a thread in One On One Debates.

 

[Storm]

Haha, I caught your ninja edit!

Have you considered calling Hitler a Droichan? He fits the bill to at "T" IMO.

If he wasn't an Avatar (and remember, I'm not certain), he was absolutely droichan.

 

[TMK18]

How can there be no right or wrong, and yet have 'evil' actions?
For evil to exist, there must be a standard at which we measure it.
True lack of morality means that no action can be deemed wrong. Anything from child abuse to torture is neither right nor wrong.
Unless of course, there is good. Good is a standard by which we measure evil. We cannot have one without the other.