Any Mary-worshippers here?

[Rainbow Mage]

How do you know there isn't a connection between Pagan and Christian depictions of the mother and child? Why speak as though that would be bad? Paganism isn't bad, except that some people say it is. To me there's a divine reason why Mary and Jesus share a connection with these Pagan counterparts.

 

[diosangpastol]

How do you know there isn't a connection between Pagan and Christian depictions of the mother and child? Why speak as though that would be bad? Paganism isn't bad, except that some people say it is. To me there's a divine reason why Mary and Jesus share a connection with these Pagan counterparts.

you have to ask yourself if the connection is dependent or independent of each other.

i am sorry but i do not agree with you on the divine reason for the similarity.

are you saying Catholicism is pagan?

 

[diosangpastol]

oops. DIR again.. please ignore my Post ... can you asnwer me privately Mr. Proud ? God Bless.

 

[Kathryn]

People doing such things doesn't necessarily mean it is taught or even encouraged. On the part of the Catholic Church, what should be done is to remind people what the proper role Mary and the saints have in the Church.

I agree.

It does say that Jesus is the mediator between God and man; however, is there anything in Scripture that says that specifically states that there shouldn't be any any mediator between Jesus and man?

God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit are One.

 

[Jordan St. Francis]

As a Catholic with a strong Marian devotion, I would have to disagree with Kathryn.

Per Mariam ad Christum .

Mary is holy and worthy only on account of her Lord. To venerate and adore her constantly is to constantly venerate and adore her God. This, in a like way that walking in the night by the light of the moon is the same, ultimately, as walking by the light of the sun. Mary's glory is never her own, and this fact deeply penetrates even the most "idolatrous" of Marian devotions.

We can not lift her up without lifting Christ higher, "after this our exile, show unto us the blessed fruit of thy womb!". The title of Mother is nothing without the reality of the Son, and only the Son existed "begotten of the Father before all ages" .

Even if Catholic devotional life has focused disproportionately on the Virgin, I've never met a staunch Marian devotee who has a lesser opinion of Christ or who does not fervently welcome him in the sacred mysteries of the Church. On the contrary, so much more.

I credit the Virgin with my return to Christianity and the Church, and she is the staple which holds together my Nicean confession.

 

[diosangpastol]

Mary and Isis actually share a lot of attributes. It's believed that many of the portraits and statues of Mary holding Jesus are directly related to statues of Isis and the Baby Horus. This is also related possibly to the Black Madonna phenomenon in France, Poland, Spain, Russia, and several other European countries. They are also both referred to as Queens of Heaven, share the dove as a symbol, etc.

what you have read is an anti-Catholic rhetoric laughed upon by scholars and is clearly without logic

 

[GabrielWithoutWings]

what you have read is an anti-Catholic rhetoric laughed upon by scholars and is clearly without logic

It isn't anti-Catholic to assume that nearby cultures influenced each other.

 

[diosangpastol]

It isn't anti-Catholic to assume that nearby cultures influenced each other.

yes that is what Alexander Hislop assumed and wanted to push

 

[GabrielWithoutWings]

Uh yeah... you do realize that he died in the 1860s, right? I'm sure most of his works have been updated in light of more recent understanding. James Frazier, as much as I like him, is also outdated.

But, even if you're right, one guy doesn't it anti-Catholic.

 

[diosangpastol]

Uh yeah... you do realize that he died in the 1860s, right? I'm sure most of his works have been updated in light of more recent understanding. James Frazier, as much as I like him, is also outdated.

But, even if you're right, one guy doesn't it anti-Catholic.

oh but there was an Evangelical who wrote on Hislop's work, believing Hislop had a good point, but after sometime he himself realized that Hislop's ideas that Catholic doctrine was influenced by paganism was RIDICULOUS and un-scholarly....so he had his book removed from circulation and made a new one that CRITICIZED Hislop's work.


----read up on Ralph Woodrow's Two Babylons

 

[GabrielWithoutWings]

oh but there was an Evangelical who wrote on Hislop's work, believing Hislop had a good point, but after sometime he himself realized that Hislop's ideas that Catholic doctrine was influenced by paganism was RIDICULOUS and un-scholarly....so he had his book removed from circulation and made a new one that CRITICIZED Hislop's work.


----read up on Ralph Woodrow's Two Babylons

Of course Catholic doctrine is going to be slightly influenced by paganism. Where do you think the word 'Logos' comes from? Who do you think formulated early Christian theology? Yeah, former pagan philosophers and scholars.

In the previous post, you mentioned art and statuary. Now you're talking about dogma.

Saying Catholicism 'stole' things from paganism is a bit much. But, you can't seriously think that adjacent cultures didn't influence each at least a little bit.

 

[diosangpastol]

Of course Catholic doctrine is going to be slightly influenced by paganism. Where do you think the word 'Logos' comes from? Who do you think formulated early Christian theology? Yeah, former pagan philosophers and scholars.

In the previous post, you mentioned art and statuary. Now you're talking about dogma.

Saying Catholicism 'stole' things from paganism is a bit much. But, you can't seriously think that adjacent cultures didn't influence each at least a little bit.

culture are what they are, Logos is Greek, John used it! so John is influenced by Paganism?

heck the whole NT was written in this pagan language, not in Hebrew of Aramaic, does this mean Christianity from the very start is pagan influenced?

that is the very point of Hislop's mistakes which you are repeating, Hislop argued that much of Catholic dogma was influenced by paganism-------un-scholarly and unintelligent, that is why scholars laughed at his book---


on the contrary, there are studies that showed that PAGANS COPIED FROM CHRISTIANITY

 

[GabrielWithoutWings]

culture are what they are, Logos is Greek, John used it! so John is influenced by Paganism?

heck the whole NT was written in this pagan language, not in Hebrew of Aramaic, does this mean Christianity from the very start is pagan influenced?

that is the very point of Hislop's mistakes which you are repeating, Hislop argued that much of Catholic dogma was influenced by paganism-------un-scholarly and unintelligent, that is why scholars laughed at his book---


on the contrary, there are studies that showed that PAGANS COPIED FROM CHRISTIANITY

Logos was first used in 500 bc. The fact that you admit that the New Testament was written in Koine Greek reinforces the fact that they were influenced and intermingled with Greek culture. Thing is, you can't put yourself in Greek culture 2000 years ago without involving yourself in its pagan philosophical roots, polytheistic and on.

Like I said. It makes sense that both cultures intermingled and influenced each other. Even Buddhism made its way to the Mediterranean area considering the vast distance from India, confirmed even by Pliny the Elder.

I didn't say 'stole.' I didn't say 'copied.' I said influenced.

 

[Cimorene]

There is a recent revival of Collyridian belief called Collyridian Filianism. It can be thought of as a denomination of Déanism (the monotheistic worship of Dea, or "Goddess"), which recognizes Marian iconography as a Western representation of Dea.

More info may be found at besplendid.tk and ifcflibrary.wikispaces.com. Information about the more general Déanism may be found at Mother-God.com. I hope this is helpful!

 

[diosangpastol]

Logos was first used in 500 bc. The fact that you admit that the New Testament was written in Koine Greek reinforces the fact that they were influenced and intermingled with Greek culture. Thing is, you can't put yourself in Greek culture 2000 years ago without involving yourself in its pagan philosophical roots, polytheistic and on.

Like I said. It makes sense that both cultures intermingled and influenced each other. Even Buddhism made its way to the Mediterranean area considering the vast distance from India, confirmed even by Pliny the Elder.

I didn't say 'stole.' I didn't say 'copied.' I said influenced.

Language and culture are non-essentials, fact still remains that Christian/Catholic Doctrine was never influenced by paganism stands.

the Church battled such influence and held strong.

otherwise you yourself are admitting that you believe in a pagan tainted form of Judaism as the Jews viewed Christianity as a Jewish sect

 

[GabrielWithoutWings]

Language and culture are non-essentials, fact still remains that Christian/Catholic Doctrine was never influenced by paganism stands.

the Church battled such influence and held strong.

otherwise you yourself are admitting that you believe in a pagan tainted form of Judaism as the Jews viewed Christianity as a Jewish sect

No, it doesn't. Christian doctrine didn't develop in a bubble, period.

If you want to continue to live in a world where cultures don't influence each other, then this conversation is over.

Enjoy your ignorance.

 

[diosangpastol]

No, it doesn't. Christian doctrine didn't develop in a bubble, period.

If you want to continue to live in a world where cultures don't influence each other, then this conversation is over.

Enjoy your ignorance.

huh?

have you lost your faith in the Lord's Divine Revelations? are you saying the Doctrine of the Holy Trinity for example was a copy of Triad gods in the region?

that Jesus' being born of a Virgin is also a copy many pagan gods' virgin birth?

 

[GabrielWithoutWings]

huh?

have you lost your faith in the Lord's Divine Revelations? are you saying the Doctrine of the Holy Trinity for example was a copy of Triad gods in the region?

that Jesus' being born of a Virgin is also a copy many pagan gods' virgin birth?

See previous.

 

[diosangpastol]

See previous.

with what you stated in your previous post, you now admit that Christianity is a man made religion.

up to you bro.

 

[diosangpastol]

as you were arguing that the whole of Christianity is pagan tainted, so as Hislop also argued.

and the Trinity is a copy of Triad gods, Jesus being born a virgin is a copy of pagan gods etc etc etc