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Any like-minded believers out there?

Discussion in 'Are you new to ReligiousForums.com?' started by LightofTruth, May 19, 2019.

  1. LightofTruth

    LightofTruth Member

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    The 4 Basic Principles of which I hold firmly:

    1. One Only True God. (The God and Father of the Lord Jesus Christ)

    2. Jesus Christ came in sinful flesh.

    3. No one has an immortal soul.

    4. The sleeping faithful will be raised incorruptible and the living faithful made immortal at Christ's second coming.


    I haven't found any group who hold these 4 basic truths together.

    Does anyone know of any?
     
  2. adrian009

    adrian009 Well-Known Member
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    Sounds most like the Jehovah Witnesses.
     
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  3. MJFlores

    MJFlores Well-Known Member

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    1. is correct

    2. Jesus Christ came in the flesh; as a man. If you remove the adjective sinful, it would be right.

    3. correct, the soul dies with the flesh and the breath of life goes back to God

    4. correct, the chosen ones will enjoy the first resurrection and the second death will not have power over them afterwards
     
  4. Enoch07

    Enoch07 It's all a sick freaking joke.
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    I agree with the first 2.

    But 3 and 4 are false.

    The soul is immortal. Immortal means it never die or decay. While this is true. The soul can be unmade or "blotted out". This is what it means to be judged and damned to hell. No devils with pitchforks to be tormented for all eternity. But to be retroactively erased, so that you never even existed to begin with. You won't be remembered or missed by anyone, because you never existed.

    Revelations 3:5

    5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

    I don't believe peoples souls reside in their corpses until the end of time. The very second a person dies their soul returns to God to await judgment. There are no special people who are spared. We all burn together in the apocalypse.

    Ecclesiastes 12: 6-7

    6 Remember him—before the silver cord is severed,
    and the golden bowl is broken;
    before the pitcher is shattered at the spring,
    and the wheel broken at the well,
    7 and the dust return to the ground it came from,
    and the spirit returns to God
     
  5. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg A World Citizen
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    I know of no group that has formed those ideas as a core foundation to faith.

    Regards Tony
     
  6. LightofTruth

    LightofTruth Member

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    Jehovah Witnesses believe in a substitutionary atonement.

    That's a doctrine of antichrist because it denies that Jesus had come in the sinful flesh.
     
  7. LightofTruth

    LightofTruth Member

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    Nor I
     
  8. adrian009

    adrian009 Well-Known Member
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    For me coming in 'sinful flesh' is just another way of saying human in which case there wouldn't be a problem. Perhaps you mean something else.

    What does it mean that Jesus came in the likeness of sinful flesh?
     
  9. LightofTruth

    LightofTruth Member

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    The first resurrection as mentioned in Revelation is not the rapture.
    If you'll notice, there is no translation of the living mentioned in the first resurrection. That's because the rapture and the first resurrection of Revelation are two separate events.
     
  10. LightofTruth

    LightofTruth Member

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  11. adrian009

    adrian009 Well-Known Member
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    That is what many Christians (Muslims and Bahaí's too) believe about Christ. However most Christians believe in an immortal soul. The JWs are an exception though they do believe the faithful Christians will be raised when Christ returns. That is why I mentioned them.
     
  12. LightofTruth

    LightofTruth Member

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  13. LightofTruth

    LightofTruth Member

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    I wouldn't associate myself with any group which denies that Jesus came in the SAME flesh and blood as his brethren. Hebrews 2:14
     
  14. LightofTruth

    LightofTruth Member

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    An immortal soul is a soul that never dies. Therefore an immortal soul never needs saving.
    Yet the business of most Christians is to try and save immortal souls that don't need saving because they never die.
     
  15. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
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    It still needs rescuing from its failure to develop virtues which are the spiritual attributes of use to us when we are born into the afterlife from this whom world. If you fail to develop physical attributes in the whom of the mother you will be born physically handicapped. Likewise you will be spiritually handicapped if you fail to develop spiritual qualities in this life.
    So the immortal soul still requires a salvation of sorts
     
  16. MJFlores

    MJFlores Well-Known Member

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    There is a second resurrection those who will suffer the second death.
    Only those who died and resurrected in the first, are saved.

    Revelation 20:5-6 New International Version (NIV)
    (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.

    upload_2019-5-20_13-3-44.jpeg

    Those who died in Christ will share the first resurrection when the Lord Jesus Christ comes to save his people, his church, his body. Of course those who are alive on the second advent of Christ, will be saved as the Bible says:

    1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 New International Version (NIV)
    Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope. For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

    [​IMG]

    1 Corinthians 15:50-52 New International Version (NIV)
    I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.

    upload_2019-5-20_13-14-9.jpeg

    When the Lord Jesus returns, he will save his sheep who died [fallen asleep] and who are alive.
     
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  17. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

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    3 and 4 are contrary to each other
     
  18. LightofTruth

    LightofTruth Member

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    How are 3 and 4 contrary to each other?
     
  19. LightofTruth

    LightofTruth Member

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    The reason the rapture and the first resurrection are separate events is that those who are taken up to meet the Lord in the air are involved in the execution of God's judgments which is what Revelation is all about.
    The raptured ones will be present when the Lamb takes the sealed-up scroll which contains the judgments to be executed.
    Christ's second coming must be a two-fold event whereby after the rapture there will be time enough for faithful believers to develop in Jerusalem of whom many will suffer persecution for not worshiping the beast or his image.
    Those faithful ones who were killed are the first resurrection. The second resurrection is reserved for those in covenant with God and who had not remained faithful.
     
  20. LightofTruth

    LightofTruth Member

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    Everyone of mankind (and all living creatures) are living souls. They do not recieve immortal souls but are living souls. A creature who has died is a dead soul.

    Check out how the KJV translators, who were immortal soulist, translate Lev 21:11:

    Lev_21:11 Neither shall he go in to any dead body, (H5315 nephesh, SOUL) nor defile himself for his father, or for his mother;

    instead of rightfully translating nephesh as SOUL, here they put BODY, because the translators were immortal soulist!
     
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