Any essential differences between Buddhism and Taoism?

[Ozzie]

Are there any? I haven't come across any in the spirit of the message of these two religions/philosophies.

 

[Engyo]

I haven't studied taoism to any great extent, but the differences I perceive are procedural. Buddhism teaches actively working towards attainment of enlightenment, and helping others to do so as well (at least in the Mahayana traditions). Taosm seems (at the very superficial understanding I currently have) more of a way of existing within the world, rather than a path to attainment of something. I could certainly be way off-base here, and I apologize to any Taoists who I have mischaracterized.

 

[PureX]

Are there any? I haven't come across any in the spirit of the message of these two religions/philosophies.

"Buddha" would be the difference. Buddhism is based on taoist principals, but views and practices those principals through the religious mechanisms of myth and tradition (stories and rituals). Taoism itself, on the other hand, is not a religion, and does not use myths or traditional behavior modifications to attain any "spiritual goal". However, taoism also doesn't shun religious expressions, and so has inadvertently spawned many forms of philosophical, religious, and superstition-based practices and beliefs, some of which are still referred to as "taoism", but aren't really.

It's no wonder that there is a lot of confusion about taoism. *smile*

The Tao doesn't take sides;
it gives birth to both good and evil.
The Master doesn't take sides;
she welcomes both saints and sinners.

The Tao is like a bellows:
it is empty yet infinitely capable.
The more you use it, the more it produces;
the more you talk of it, the less you understand.

Hold on to the center.

- from the Tao Te Ching​

 

[Random]

It's no wonder that there is a lot of confusion about taoism. *smile*

The Tao doesn't take sides;
it gives birth to both good and evil.
The Master doesn't take sides;
she welcomes both saints and sinners.​

The Tao is like a bellows:
it is empty yet infinitely capable.
The more you use it, the more it produces;
the more you talk of it, the less you understand.​

Hold on to the center.​

- from the Tao Te Ching​

Who is the "she" in this verse referred to as Master, PureX? Is it Wisdom, or a Goddess? Curious...

 

[Pardus]

Putting it short and sweet.

Taoism keeps it nose out of other people's business.

Of course there is more to it, but most of that is about point of view, like how almost every religion has "the golden rule" just that some are more dogmatic about it.

 

[PureX]

Who is the "she" in this verse referred to as Master, PureX? Is it Wisdom, or a Goddess? Curious...

In the original Chinese text, the pronoun has no gender. Unfortunately, in English, we have no genderless pronoun. So when the Tao Te Ching is translated into English, some translators alternated the pronouns from one poem to the next. So that the "master" is referred to as "he" in poem 5, and as "she" in poem 6, etc.

The "master" referred to in the Tao Te Ching is anyone who embodies the tao, and is aware of it. Technically speaking, we all embody the tao, but we are not all aware of this, and so in our ignorance, we may act against our own nature.

Look, and it can't be seen.
Listen, and it can't be heard.
Reach, and it can't be grasped.

Above, it isn't bright.
Below, it isn't dark.
Seamless, unnamable,
it returns to the realm of nothing.
Form that includes all forms,
image without an image,
subtle, beyond all conception.

Approach it and there is no beginning;
follow it and there is no end.
You can't know it, but you can be it,
at ease in your own life.
Just realize where you come from:
this is the essence of wisdom.

- from the Tao Te Ching​

 

[lilithu]

Who is the "she" in this verse referred to as Master, PureX? Is it Wisdom, or a Goddess? Curious...

The Master a person who is a master of the Tao. Someone who has learned to live in accord with the Tao. PureX is using a modern translation, which refers to the Master as a 'she' rather than a 'he' because traditional translations always used 'he' and gave the impression that only males could be masters of the Tao. The more modern translations tend to swith between 'he' and 'she' in different verses. Technically speaking, they're both correct, since Chinese uses a pronoun that is gender neutral.

I like it. :yes:

 

[Pardus]

"They" is genderless.

The word Man used to be genderless.

Wereman and Woman were the original gender terms.

 

[d.]

in the spirit of the message

to answer this question one would have to know what you perceive as 'the spirit of the message'.

i could think of a rather long list of differences off the top of my head...

 

[PureX]

"They" is genderless.

But "they" is plurel. It can work in some instances, but not when we need a singular genderless pronoun.

The word Man used to be genderless.

Actually, it was never intended to be genderless. It just became so habitual in male-dominant societies that it was sometimes viewed as genderless. I suspect that men saw it as genderless a lot more that women did. *smile*

 

[lilithu]

"Buddha" would be the difference. Buddhism is based on taoist principals, but views and practices those principals through the religious mechanisms of myth and tradition (stories and rituals). Taoism itself, on the other hand, is not a religion, and does not use myths or traditional behavior modifications to attain any "spiritual goal". However, taoism also doesn't shun religious expressions, and so has inadvertently spawned many forms of philosophical, religious, and superstition-based practices and beliefs, some of which are still referred to as "taoism", but aren't really.

How do you get to decide what is really Taoism and what isn't?

In the West it may be the case that when you practice what you call Taoism it is only the philosophy. In the East the Taoist temples are fulls of gods and goddesses. I grew up learning Taoist creation stories and aunts and uncles who practice Tai-Chi and Chi-Gung, which are very much a part of Taosim as yoga is a part of Hinduism.

Similarly in the West many people who are Buddhist will claim that Buddhism is not a religion because there is no superstitious mumbo-jumbo, and that it's only a philosophy that teaches you how to best enjoy this life thru meditation. Ack!! :bonk: They've never met a Buddhist from Sri Lanka or Nepal then. And they've certainly not read any of the original Buddhist scriptures.

People who say that their practice is not a religion do so because they want to distance themselves from certain aspects of religion that they don't like. Well, you can remove those aspects from your daily practice, fine. But you have no authority to remove it on behalf of everyone one else who uses the same label.

 

[d.]

How do you get to decide what is really Taoism and what isn't?

this is why the labels 'tao jia' and 'tao jiao' is so helpful...when one remembers to use them.

 

[Valjean]

This reminds me the early '70s, when we were beginning the day with asanas/pranayam at the local 3HO ashram, attending social consciousness-raising meetings in the afternoon and antiwar planning committee meetings each Thursday.
In the tradition of the first French Republic, we used "Co/Cos" as high-status personal pronouns (as opposed to the low-status "it/its")

It never caught on. We were overrun by the Capitalists.

A whiff of grapeshot.....

 

[PureX]

How do you get to decide what is really Taoism and what isn't?

Because I am deciding for myself.

When they lose their sense of awe,
people turn to religion.
When they no longer trust themselves,
they begin to depend upon authority.

Therefore the Master steps back
so that people won't be confused.
He teaches without a teaching,
so that people will have nothing to learn.

- from the Tao Te Ching​

 

[lilithu]

Because I am deciding for myself.

Then speak only for yourself.

 

[PureX]

Then speak only for yourself.

Whatever made you assume I was ever speaking for anyone else?

I think you're taking me way too seriously.

 

[lilithu]

Whatever made you assume I was ever speaking for anyone else?

I quote:
"Taoism itself, on the other hand, is not a religion, and does not use myths or traditional behavior modifications to attain any "spiritual goal". However, taoism also doesn't shun religious expressions, and so has inadvertently spawned many forms of philosophical, religious, and superstition-based practices and beliefs, some of which are still referred to as "taoism", but aren't really."

I think you're taking me way too seriously.

I'm taking you at your word. If you want us to understand that you're only giving your own opinion and not giving an overarching definition of Taoism, then you'd be better off saying "In my opinion..." or "For me..."

 

[Mathematician]

*Hat on* A Taoist can be a Buddhist; A Buddhist can be a Taoist.
*Hat off*

I heard something awhile ago about Taoist and Buddhist enlightment that I think is appropriate to post. It doesn't apply to everyone, but you might get a basic understanding:

Think of it like two people in a raft. The Buddhist holds the oar, and the Taoist is the passenger:

The Buddhist is constantly paying attention to what's going around him, careful that he will choose the correct path without hitting rocks.
The Taoist passenger is relaxed and trusts that he will eventually arrive at the right destination.

 

[lilithu]

*Hat on* A Taoist can be a Buddhist; A Buddhist can be a Taoist.
*Hat off*

Well in Asia you can be a Taoist and a Buddhist and whatever else you want. In fact, people used to pick the religion that they felt was most appropriate for the occasion. So if I remember correctly, in China, Taoist priests were there to bless the birth, Confucians for the marriage ceremony and Buddhist nuns at the funeral. And then in Japan you have the Shinto religion...

I remember one lesson from my intro to religious class where the professor talked about how when Western scholars first went to Asia and took a poll of people's religious beliefs there and were surprised to see the percentages add up to well over 100%, because people freely checked more than one box. :yes:

I heard something awhile ago about Taoist and Buddhist enlightment that I think is appropriate to post. It doesn't apply to everyone, but you might get a basic understanding:

Think of it like two people in a car. The Buddhist is the driver, and the Taoist is the passenger:

The Buddhist is constantly paying attention to what's going around him, careful that he will choose the correct path.
The Taoist passenger is relaxed and trusting that he will eventually arrive at the right destination.

Cool.

 

[PureX]

I'm taking you at your word. If you want us to understand that you're only giving your own opinion and not giving an overarching definition of Taoism, then you'd be better off saying "In my opinion..." or "For me..."

I was giving my opinion of the over-arching definition of taoism.