Antifa linked to violence during protests.

[fantome profane]

FBI 'has no intelligence' indicating antifa was linked to weekend violence in the George Floyd protests, despite Trump and Republicans' claims

• The FBI has "no intelligence" indicating that "antifa" was involved in violence over the weekend related to protests following the death of George Floyd, a 46-year-old black man who died after a white police officer knelt on his neck for nearly nine minutes, The Nation reported.
• President Donald Trump, Attorney General William Barr, and several Republican lawmakers have blamed antifa for violence linked to protests that took place on Sunday.
• But according to The Nation, which cited an internal FBI situation report, the bureau's Washington, DC, field office "has no intelligence indicating Antifa involvement/presence" in the violence that took place that day.

Isn’t that interesting? It seems Trump is lying again, trying to create division. And people are falling for it.

 

[Windwalker]

Well we all know by now that whatever sin Donald and those who follow him do, he will accuse others of doing first to distract them from looking right at him. Not working. Next time he says the news is lying, be assured he is the one lying and he knows it.

Same thing here. It's his "very fine people" of the far right doing all of this, so he accuses a fictitious entity of doing it. Democracy itself is "anti fascist", so anyone who is an American is "antifa" technically speaking.

That doesn't go of course for those who do support fascism, such as a supporting a dictator who thinks he is above the law and can "dominate" American citizen with the military, which defines fascism, who uses tear gas and rubber bullets on peaceful protestors so he can have a photo-op with a Bible to add to history's other"Law and order" dictators with posing with theirs.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Isn’t that interesting? It seems Trump is lying again, ...

You mean his lips were moving?

 

[Augustus]

Democracy itself is "anti fascist", so anyone who is an American is "antifa", except for those who support fascism,

Antifa isn't simply generic opposition to fascism though:

Thus, anti-fascism is an illiberal politics of social revolutionism applied to fighting the Far Right, not only literal fascists... it is simply one of a number of manifestations of revolutionary socialist politics (broadly construed)...

Much of the antifa reluctance to engage with [the issue of free-speech] stems from their rejection of the classically liberal terms of debate that limit political questions about personal and group expression to the confines of legalistic rights-based discourse. For liberals, the prime question is the status of the free speech rights of fascists. For revolutionary socialist antifa, the prime question is the political struggle against fascism; from their perspective, the rights promoted by capitalist parliamentary government are not inherently worthy of respect.”

Mark Bray. “Antifa: The Antifascist Handbook”

 

[Stevicus]

FBI 'has no intelligence' indicating antifa was linked to weekend violence in the George Floyd protests, despite Trump and Republicans' claims

• The FBI has "no intelligence" indicating that "antifa" was involved in violence over the weekend related to protests following the death of George Floyd, a 46-year-old black man who died after a white police officer knelt on his neck for nearly nine minutes, The Nation reported.
• President Donald Trump, Attorney General William Barr, and several Republican lawmakers have blamed antifa for violence linked to protests that took place on Sunday.
• But according to The Nation, which cited an internal FBI situation report, the bureau's Washington, DC, field office "has no intelligence indicating Antifa involvement/presence" in the violence that took place that day.

Isn’t that interesting? It seems Trump is lying again, trying to create division. And people are falling for it.

Does anyone really know what's going on anymore? I keep hearing all these conflicting reports about agitators and infiltrators from both extremes, far-right and far-left, as well as foreign infiltrators as well. Where is all this coming from?

Aren't people capable of making their own choices and decisions anymore? Has everyone just turned into mindless sheep to be influenced and agitated?

 

[fantome profane]

Does anyone really know what's going on anymore? I keep hearing all these conflicting reports about agitators and infiltrators from both extremes, far-right and far-left, as well as foreign infiltrators as well. Where is all this coming from?

Aren't people capable of making their own choices and decisions anymore? Has everyone just turned into mindless sheep to be influenced and agitated?

That is exactly the point. When you hear one of these “reports” ask yourself “where is it coming from?” Is it a reliable source or not.

And be willing to say you don’t know when you don’t know.

 

[TrueBeliever37]

Well we all know by now that whatever sin Donald and those who follow him do, he will accuse others of doing first to distract them from looking right at him. Not working. Next time he says the news is lying, be assured he is the one lying and he knows it.

Same thing here. It's his "very fine people" of the far right doing all of this, so he accuses a fictitious entity of doing it. Democracy itself is "anti fascist", so anyone who is an American is "antifa" technically speaking.

That doesn't go of course for those who do support fascism, such as a supporting a dictator who thinks he is above the law and can "dominate" American citizen with the military, which defines fascism, who uses tear gas and rubber bullets on peaceful protestors so he can have a photo-op with a Bible to add to history's other"Law and order" dictators with posing with theirs.

View attachment 40520

So you think the way they have looted, and damaged our cities, and destroyed fellow American's businesses, and even killed other citizens has been peaceful?

And you really believe that Trump and his followers are behind causing this chaos, yet want to send in police, national guard, etc in order to stop something you say they are behind to begin with? To me that doesn't make sense.

Of course what was done to George Floyd was horrible. And the guilty should be punished appropriately. But what about the protesters that have killed others? Do you think they should be free to kill just because they are angry?

 

[Revoltingest]

Does anyone really know what's going on anymore? I keep hearing all these conflicting reports about agitators and infiltrators from both extremes, far-right and far-left, as well as foreign infiltrators as well. Where is all this coming from?

It makes sense that both rightish & leftish malefactors would
want to join & enhance the carnage.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

So you think the way they have looted, and damaged our cities, and destroyed fellow American's businesses, and even killed other citizens has been peaceful?

And you really believe that Trump and his followers are behind causing this chaos, yet want to send in police, national guard, etc in order to stop something you say they are behind to begin with? To me that doesn't make sense.

Of course what was done to George Floyd was horrible. And the guilty should be punished appropriately. But what about the protesters that have killed others? Do you think they should be free to kill just because they are angry?

Congratulations. You utterly missed the point.

 

[TrueBeliever37]

Congratulations. You utterly missed the point.

Wasn't the point that the protesters were peaceful, and Trump and his followers are to blame for the chaos?

 

[ecco]

And you really believe that Trump and his followers are behind causing this chaos, yet want to send in police, national guard, etc in order to stop something you say they are behind to begin with? To me that doesn't make sense.

What doesn't make sense to you? Trump is not sending out looters.

Some of the looters are people taking advantage of the situation. Some, right-wing supporters, are looting and causing violence in order to make the protestors look bad. Trump, in the speech I heard, named only one group specifically - Antifa. This is similar to what he did during the Charlottesville riots.

The looters and rioters give Trump an opportunity to show that He is the country's Law-and-order-president! He is the man with the plan!

In reality, he is nothing more than an ignorant, arrogant bully. A prime example is clearing out a peaceful protest with batons and tear gas in order to be able to stand in front of a church holding a bible.

Even his Secy of Defense, Esper, was appalled at that.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Wasn't the point that the protesters were peaceful, and Trump and his followers are to blame for the chaos?

Nope. Try again.

 

[columbus]

And you really believe that Trump and his followers are behind causing this chaos, yet want to send in police, national guard, etc in order to stop something you say they are behind to begin with? To me that doesn't make sense.

Sure it does.
Cause a problem. Then exploit the problem to bolster your power.

This can be done on multiple levels.

A cop can start a looting spree, then go in to bring order. A president can instigate social unrest, then clamp down on political opponents. A religion can teach about sin, then require people to escape eternal damnation by following the teachings of that religion, including submission and tithing.

This story is as old as human history.

Tom

 

[sun rise]

Mark Bray. “Antifa: The Antifascist Handbook”

Quoting him that way led me to assume he was a questionable source. Learning that he's a Dartmouth College historian gives him and what you quoted more credibility.

But the thread title etc is part of the right wing effort to use antifa as a "punching bag" to attack liberals and progressives:

During the Trump administration, the term antifa became "a conservative catch-all" term as Trump, administration officials, Trump base supporters and right-wing commentators applied the label to all sorts of left-leaning or liberal protest actions.[109] Conservative writers such as L. Brent Bozell III labeled Black Lives Matter as "antifa".[109] Politico reported that "the term [antifa] is a potent one for conservatives" because "t's the violent distillation of everything they fear could come to pass in an all-out culture war. And it's a quick way to brand part of the opposition".[109] Alexander Reid Ross, who teaches at Portland State University, argued that the popularization of the term antifa was a reaction to the popularization of the term alt-right, "to the point where [the word antifa] simply describes people who are anti-fascist or people who are against racism and are willing to protest against it".[109]

 

[Windwalker]

So you think the way they have looted, and damaged our cities, and destroyed fellow American's businesses, and even killed other citizens has been peaceful?

The vast majority of protestors have been peaceful. The looters and other mayhemists, are not peaceful. They are also larger driven by far-right agitators, and other anarchist type folks. I reject, as well as the FBI rejects, Donald Trump's unsupportable claim that these are Antifa activists. There is no evidence to support Trump's claim.

Of course what was done to George Floyd was horrible. And the guilty should be punished appropriately. But what about the protesters that have killed others? Do you think they should be free to kill just because they are angry?

Do you think I believe that? Why would you think that?

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Do you think I believe that? Why would you think that?

Because strawmen are easy and nuance is hard?

 

[Augustus]

Quoting him that way led me to assume he was a questionable source. Learning that he's a Dartmouth College historian gives him and what you quoted more credibility.

It's the name of his book , which is a history of Anti-fascist Action, as well as a discussion how the contemporary movement sees itself.

It has always been part of the 'revolutionary left', not the liberal mainstream.

But the thread title etc is part of the right wing effort to use antifa as a "punching bag" to attack liberals and progressives:

During the Trump administration, the term antifa became "a conservative catch-all" term as Trump, administration officials, Trump base supporters and right-wing commentators applied the label to all sorts of left-leaning or liberal protest actions.[109] Conservative writers such as L. Brent Bozell III labeled Black Lives Matter as "antifa".[109] Politico reported that "the term [antifa] is a potent one for conservatives" because "t's the violent distillation of everything they fear could come to pass in an all-out culture war. And it's a quick way to brand part of the opposition".[109] Alexander Reid Ross, who teaches at Portland State University, argued that the popularization of the term antifa was a reaction to the popularization of the term alt-right, "to the point where [the word antifa] simply describes people who are anti-fascist or people who are against racism and are willing to protest against it".[109]

In which case, it helps to differentiate Antifa(scist Action) groups from those who generically oppose fascism. It's like differentiating actual Marxian Socialists from social democrats.

Quite a lot of liberals also conflate Antifa with generic opposition to fascism, rather than acknowledging it is something quite different.

 

[MonkeyFire]

Only fachist are afraid of antifa (anti-facshism). That means you Donald.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Of course what was done to George Floyd was horrible. And the guilty should be punished appropriately. But what about the protesters that have killed others? Do you think they should be free to kill just because they are angry?

Unfortunately, I think that you have just lumped all protesters together. The fact that there are bad people who can turn anything ugly does not mean that nobody should ever do anything, simply because there's somebody who will make bad use of it.

There is a very legitimate cause for protest here, and I support the right of people to protest when they have good cause (or even when they believe they have good cause and I don't). I would not insist on shutting down all protest because there are violent people who will turn legitimate protest into something else.

However, I can see, as easily as you can, or anyone else can, that this does make for some very, very difficult moments for the police -- having to sort out the legitimate and largely peaceful protest from the few instigators and (I will use the word) "thugs.'

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

It makes sense that both rightish & leftish malefactors would want to join & enhance the carnage.

But as I just posted, the fact that there are malefactors (on both sides, I agree), is not sufficient reason to shut down legitimate protest -- is it?