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Anti-trans bill passes in Kentucky

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Question Everything
If that's how you wish to see it. I see it as more state encroachment on individual choices. Most of these minors would still be well into their teens. What did you decide was going to be the course of your life at 16/17? Did you have a grasp of your identity or sexuality? Did anyone in authority discourage or block you?

In high school, my daughter was the only girl in shop class. She was not allowed to use power tools, was given different assignments than boys. Thankfully, that teacher is no longer at the school.

She has now changed her/their name, has moved from the south to northern states, and is close to getting an engineering degree.
 

Shaul

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
If that's how you wish to see it. I see it as more state encroachment on individual choices. Most of these minors would still be well into their teens. What did you decide was going to be the course of your life at 16/17? Did you have a grasp of your identity or sexuality? Did anyone in authority discourage or block you?
At 16 already I knew that children needed protection from people that wanted to exploit them sexually. Like decent people do.
 

The Sum of Awe

Brought to you by the moment that spacetime began.
If that's how you wish to see it. I see it as more state encroachment on individual choices. Most of these minors would still be well into their teens. What did you decide was going to be the course of your life at 16/17? Did you have a grasp of your identity or sexuality? Did anyone in authority discourage or block you?
I'm very glad that I did not follow the course of my life that I had thought it would be at 16/17. It's likely teenagers with gender dysphoria do not have a grasp on their identity or sexuality, and therefore it's best they wait until they're older. I personally feel even 18 is a bit too young for medical transitioning. When I was 18 I got what I thought was an amazing tattoo that I put a lot of thought into and thought I wanted it for life. Now, at 27, I'd rather not have that tattoo. I can't imagine making a decision to sexually mutilate myself at that age and grow up no longer feeling that way.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
It's likely teenagers with gender dysphoria do not have a grasp on their identity or sexuality, and therefore it's best they wait until they're older.
We often know before we're teens. And you mentioning a tattoo in comparison? That's pretty weak.
And is it mutilation? People tell me that about my piercings and I think those people are dumb. And what you mention as "sexual mutilation" is a medically accepted treatment.
 

Shaul

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Get over yourself. You don't know better than the experts who study this. Your uneducated and ignorant laymans opinion is noted.
"experts"? Oh, you mean people that want to "help" minors through sexual mutilation.
 

The Sum of Awe

Brought to you by the moment that spacetime began.
We often know before we're teens. And you mentioning a tattoo in comparison? That's pretty weak.
And is it mutilation? People tell me that about my piercings and I think those people are dumb. And what you mention as "sexual mutilation" is a medically accepted treatment.
The tattoo was a decision I made based on how I felt at the time, who I thought I was. The fact that it is nowhere as drastic as a medical transition is exactly my point: people that age don't always fully understand themselves and make rash decisions. One rash decision as irreversible as a gender swap is clearly not a good thing.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
I'm very glad that I did not follow the course of my life that I had thought it would be at 16/17. It's likely teenagers with gender dysphoria do not have a grasp on their identity or sexuality, and therefore it's best they wait until they're older. I personally feel even 18 is a bit too young for medical transitioning. When I was 18 I got what I thought was an amazing tattoo that I put a lot of thought into and thought I wanted it for life. Now, at 27, I'd rather not have that tattoo. I can't imagine making a decision to sexually mutilate myself at that age and grow up no longer feeling that way.
The problem with being tans is that when they go through puberty they go through changes that they cannot undo. They can still go through puberty later, may have some effects from a late puberty if they change their mind, but it is a smaller difference than if they were genuinely trans and went through puberty. It is their life, they should have more control over it than a state legislature that has no clue about who needs the medication and who does not. This is not a health based decision of the legislature. It is a very prejudiced and probably religion based decision. It is unconstitutional on the face of it.
 

The Sum of Awe

Brought to you by the moment that spacetime began.
The problem with being tans is that when they go through puberty they go through changes that they cannot undo. They can still go through puberty later, may have some effects from a late puberty if they change their mind, but it is a smaller difference than if they were genuinely trans and went through puberty. It is their life, they should have more control over it than a state legislature that has no clue about who needs the medication and who does not. This is not a health based decision of the legislature. It is a very prejudiced and probably religion based decision. It is unconstitutional on the face of it.
I don’t understand much about hormones. It’s hard for me to believe there would be minimal repercussions for having a late puberty. I mean, what if you take hormone blockers up until age 17 or 20? Surely hormone blockers aren’t taken for life. There must be an age where the blocked puberty becomes permanent. Or even worse, a young girl taking testosterone to increase puberty but later deciding she wish she had stayed feminine?

Regardless, I was talking about medical transitioning. I think the minimum age for such a procedure should be at least 21
 

Kathryn

It was on fire when I laid down on it.
All I can tell you is that I am a whole lot different as a person than I was as a minor person. I matured, read more, thought more. etc. I am glad I couldn't make some choices as a minor.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
I don’t understand much about hormones. It’s hard for me to believe there would be minimal repercussions for having a late puberty. I mean, what if you take hormone blockers up until age 17 or 20? Surely hormone blockers aren’t taken for life. There must be an age where the blocked puberty becomes permanent. Or even worse, a young girl taking testosterone to increase puberty but later deciding she wish she had stayed feminine?

Regardless, I was talking about medical transitioning. I think the minimum age for such a procedure should be at least 21
I am far from a medical expert myself. There are several things you need to consider. A trans person cannot do this on their own. To get the drugs a doctor or more likely doctors would have to prescribe the drugs and they will not do so on a whim. They will be far more aware of the consequences either way than you or I. At this point your tattoo analogy already fails because you would have gotten your tattoo all on your own.

If the kids doctors okay it what business is it of the ignorant?
 

Kathryn

It was on fire when I laid down on it.
In high school, my daughter was the only girl in shop class. She was not allowed to use power tools, was given different assignments than boys. Thankfully, that teacher is no longer at the school.

She has now changed her/their name, has moved from the south to northern states, and is close to getting an engineering degree.
Hey, I was the only girl in my drafting class! In 1979. Thankfully the teacher didn't treat me any differently from the buys in the class.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
All I can tell you is that I am a whole lot different as a person than I was as a minor person. I matured, read more, thought more. etc. I am glad I couldn't make some choices as a minor.
And once again, this is a misrepresentation of what is going on. It is never the kid's choice alone. Doctors would have to agree that the child is trans and order the drugs.

I would not leave up to just a child either. No one is proposing that. But why on Earth would you allow a state legislature that has no clue about individual cases at all to decide for all of them? If you allow the legislature to make this decision then they could also make decisions that since kids are getting pregnant at too early of an age that everyone has to go through puberty blockers until 16,. It would be a stupid decision. It would be a gross overreach. But it would be no different from this one.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Hey, I was the only girl in my drafting class! In 1979. Thankfully the teacher didn't treat me any differently from the buys in the class.
Well as long as it was not a math class I guess that is okay. Girls can't do math.

 

We Never Know

No Slack
And once again, this is a misrepresentation of what is going on. It is never the kid's choice alone. Doctors would have to agree that the child is trans and order the drugs.

I would not leave up to just a child either. No one is proposing that. But why on Earth would you allow a state legislature that has no clue about individual cases at all to decide for all of them? If you allow the legislature to make this decision then they could also make decisions that since kids are getting pregnant at too early of an age that everyone has to go through puberty blockers until 16,. It would be a stupid decision. It would be a gross overreach. But it would be no different from this one.

"Doctors would have to agree that the child is trans"

What has to happen for the Dr to agree?
 

The Sum of Awe

Brought to you by the moment that spacetime began.
I am far from a medical expert myself. There are several things you need to consider. A trans person cannot do this on their own. To get the drugs a doctor or more likely doctors would have to prescribe the drugs and they will not do so on a whim. They will be far more aware of the consequences either way than you or I. At this point your tattoo analogy already fails because you would have gotten your tattoo all on your own.

If the kids doctors okay it what business is it of the ignorant?
Are you aware of how easy it used to be, and likely still is, to get a doctors diagnosis for ADD and get medication for it? We shouldn’t pretend that doctors are infallible or that it is beyond a teenager’s ability to exaggerate things (not necessarily intentionally) and manipulate the doctors diagnosis that way.
 

We Never Know

No Slack
Are you aware of how easy it used to be, and likely still is, to get a doctors diagnosis for ADD and get medication for it? We shouldn’t pretend that doctors are infallible or that it is beyond a teenager’s ability to exaggerate things (not necessarily intentionally) and manipulate the doctors diagnosis that way.

Most don't look at it like this but Dr's run a business.
 
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