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Anti-Karma

Discussion in 'Dharmic Religions DIR' started by Kungfuzed, May 15, 2007.

  1. Kungfuzed

    Kungfuzed Student Nurse

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    1,995
    Everything in the universe seems to have it's equal opposite. Does Karma also have an opposite? They say that what goes around comes around. If that's Karma, then maybe Anti-Karma would be like nature. Nature abhors a vacuum. When you give something to one person, another goes without it. Also, the greater one persons success, the greater the envy from others. The more good you try to do, the stronger evil has to be to equal things out. Is there anything taught about Anti-Karma in the Dharmic Religions?
     
  2. xexon

    xexon Destroyer of Worlds

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    880
    Karma is merely a way of keeping your score while here on earth.

    It accounts for your actions. Both good and bad. I've always compared it to a bank account. You have a good account and a bad account. For most, the bad account is a huge thing, gained from poor decisions over many lifetimes.

    There is no limit to how karma can manifest itself. It is all based on your actions.

    Karma can be realized quickly, or spread over many lifetimes. It is the latter which produces the dragging effect most people have to endure. It is the main reason bad things sometimes happen to good people.

    The only way to escape karma is to pay it off. Knowing this, you will learn to not make any bad karma for yourself. In rare cases, karma can be forgiven by divine grace.

    Karma exists only in the lower worlds. It has no meaning in the higher spiritual realms.



    x
     
  3. Wandered Off

    Wandered Off Sporadic Driveby Member Staff Member

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    Religion:
    Generally a bad idea
    I admit a limited understanding of Karma, but it seems to me the concept contains 'both sides' already. It's like an accounting entry where you have an asset offset by a liability or a debit by a credit. It's the very existence of the event and it's 'anti' that make up Karma in the first place, unless I have missed the point (always a strong possibility).
     
  4. !Fluffy!

    !Fluffy! Lacking Common Sense

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    2,215
    This is a great response. re: divine grace - under what circumstances? or, how does this work?
     
  5. Kungfuzed

    Kungfuzed Student Nurse

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    1,995
    If Karma is "what goes around comes around", then Anti-Karma is "what goes around stays around or goes away".
    Money might be an example. You give and give money for bills and groceries and stuff and it makes a few people very rich. It doesn't come back around on it's own. Karma won't solve it unless you happen to be reincarnated as a rich person.
     
  6. Wandered Off

    Wandered Off Sporadic Driveby Member Staff Member

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    Religion:
    Generally a bad idea
    Ah, OK, thanks. So do I understand correctly that you are really asking, "Does Karma sometimes not happen?"
     
  7. xexon

    xexon Destroyer of Worlds

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    880
    Sometimes, when you make a great effort to redeem yourself, even though you may flounder in the effort, it has not gone unnoticed.

    In the master/disciple relationship, there are stories which a wayward diciple will do something that touches the heart strings of the master. In doing so, the master, out of great love and compassion may grant the disciple full awareness, as opposed to others which have have to struggle with it for many lifetimes.

    In Christianity, the story of Saul into Paul is an excellent example. Despite his terrible past, he was able to go to the front of the line in the wink of an eye.

    But for most, it is a long and dusty road ahead.



    x
     
  8. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    6,689
    Religion:
    I am an advaitist Hindu and a strong atheist.
    Karma is action, the opposite is inaction (Sanskrit - Akarmanyata). Geeta says 'Ma Karma-phala Hetuh Bhu, Ma Sangostva Akarmani' (neither act in quest of gains, nor be attached to inaction). Act according to your duty (Dharma) without caring for consequences, do what is correct; and do not be an onlooker, act.
    What happens is chance and probability. It may not have connection with your action. You have prepared for a gala event, food is ready, the band is ready, the guests are in, and just at that moment, it rains.
     
  9. Don Penguinoini

    Don Penguinoini Modi.

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    Religion:
    Hindu Atheist
    Just like there is no parrallel universe, the is no anti-karma, its a natural law, and natural law has no opposites.
     
  10. Pariah

    Pariah Let go

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    809
    I have never heard of a force that works towards "keeping it as it is".
    However, it should be mentioned that once a person is enlightened, the sages actions become self-less and do not generate any karma, good or bad, at all.

    Bad karma will create negative events in one life, but the way to avoid generating more bad karma is by approaching the situation in way that follows dharma, or your duty in life. In this way, you may either act without creating bad karma or generate good karma.

    You want to die with no karma at all.
    An enlightened person generates no bad karma, but burns off the bad karma by approaching the negative events in life dharma-ically and enjoying the good events without becoming attached to them.

    In response to your question, however, I have not heard of such a balancing force. I hope this helps your understand of karma, though.
     
  11. capslockf9

    capslockf9 New Member

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    265
    Karma is a term synanimous with result. (You can have bad karma or good karma.) And this result from actions. Actions can be performed in an awareness or in an unenlightened state of mind. Actions produce the result.
    Analogous : A tree is what is what is is because of past seed activity. You future "tree" will be a result todays actions.
     
    Don Penguinoini likes this.
  12. Ozzie

    Ozzie New Member

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    3,322
    I don't think karma has an opposite. Karma is about reaction. It has valence.

    The closest thing to anti-karma might be ignorance of its operation in which case neither concept if of concern.
     
  13. MysticSang'ha

    MysticSang'ha Big Squishy Hugger Staff Member Premium Member

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    As far as I'm concerned, your first sentence summed up karma in and of itself. Newton's Third Law, you know. :)

    You get out what you put in. You reap what you sow. What goes around comes around. Every action has an equal and opposite reaction.

    Your examples concerning doing without, envy, and the question of evil have nothing to do with Karma (universal). They have more to do with karma (personal).

    Hope I made sense. :)




    Peace,
    Mystic
     
  14. YmirGF

    YmirGF Bodhisattva

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    Religion:
    Beyond the Light
    I recognize you are a Buddhist dear Heather, but you are incorrect. The law of Karma is actually for every action there is an equal and SIMILAR reaction!!! If you do "bad" then you can expect reality to respond in kind. If you do "good" then you can expect reality to mirror your "good" actions. Sadly however, good and bad are merely value judgments and have no real meaning at the end of the day. In theory so-called bad actions can cause a catharsis within the individual that moves them to change their ways. In that respect, since the bad precipitated the change within the individual can you really say, after all is said and done that it was a bad action?

    See above. Every action has an equal and SIMILAR reaction, at least when taken from an internal (psychic/psychological) perspective, not a physical perspective such a Newton was describing. I stress that in no way is it EVER an opposite reaction. If that were the case then we would likely deem Adolf Hitler and Joseph Stalin as being close to god as the result of their "evil" was the birth of much "good". (I hope you can see how narrow the focus of that lens is.) There is ONLY experience. It is we ourselves who determine via our own prejudices what constitutes "good" and "bad". One must be wary about ascribing dualistic concepts to multidimensional values (like karma) as one only ends up short changing themselves through their abysmally limited focus.

    BTW: Xexon stated at the start of this thread that "karma" does not exist in the higher spiritual realms and I would suggest he is not terribly knowledgable in this area... no pun intended. To suggest that one EVER rises beyond karma is absurd and has its basis in limited flesh-based thinking. Karma IS and always will be your own personal self correcting mechanism somewhat like how subatomic particles are bound by weak forces and strong forces so we are forever bound by karma. Any other position is simply delusional.

    Heather, there is no difference in karma due to the nature of Oneness. This is a dualistic illusion, period.

    You did hon, but never think for a second that I a belittling your contribution. You are a solid example of a pure Buddhist and you certainly help bring back memories within this old fossil.

    I dunno Heather but it is like mankind has only been given a very, very limited view of reality from an internal perspective. My deep suspicion is that many monks led isolated lives and withdrew from worldly affairs. This certainly helped them to achieve enlightenment, but it also cut them off from the deep and wonderful connections with their imperfect brothers and sisters of mankind. Here I mean it is somewhat like asking a child who grew up in a wealthy family what it is like to be poor. They can speculate, but they really do not know. They have no experience with it and so cannot really imagine the nuances of what it is like to go without or to be hungry. It is a similiar situation with many of the sages throughout the ages who have lost their ability to RELATE to their fellow human animals.

    I hope that makes sense.
     
  15. Random

    Random Well-Known Member

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    5,044
    Karma means you reap what you sow in conditional states of living, so if there is an opposite of Karma is could be said to be injustice.
     
  16. YmirGF

    YmirGF Bodhisattva

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    Religion:
    Beyond the Light
    But even there Random, injustice is just another aspect of looking at the world through a dualistic lens. Karma is beyond duality and is a governing aspect of Oneness. It matters not in the slightest if the individual has experienced that sense of Oneness or not, for they are still bound by karma, although they might have to stub their toes a bit more than a so-called "enlightened" personality would.

    The idea that karma is like a chequebook is ludicrous due to our erroneous sense of time. You are simply NOT bound by actions committed in previous lives as all lives are lived simultaneously. Time is absent from the equation therefore in larger terms there is no past and there is no future. There is only now and karma operates in the Now or current present.
     
  17. Random

    Random Well-Known Member

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    5,044
    Meaning "Instant Karma", yes quite. The thing about Simultaneity is that although yes, lives are lived @ once out of spacetime in truth, as soon as one becomes conscious of action and identifies ones-Self as the "do-er" of the deed then it immediately goes with the mind into the past and, the seed thus sown, one reaps the karmic rewards or punishments for it. Unconditional Oneness is meant to be an abstraction to a conditional entity experiencing the temporal "other".
     
  18. MysticSang'ha

    MysticSang'ha Big Squishy Hugger Staff Member Premium Member

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    25,729
    Hey, Paul! Long time no see! :hug:

    All I can say is that I stand corrected from my earlier post.

    Hmmmm, maybe my attempt to describe karma from a dualistic perspective wound up losing the meaning behind karma in the first place..........however, there are times when introducing karma that dualistic terms of "positive" or "negative", "good" or "evil", etc. tend to make more sense for some folks than simply shedding dualistic concepts as a whole. Not everyone is that detached from egoistic graspings.

    But that's OK.

    On that point we agree.......as pertains to the desire realms of samsara.

    LOL I'm not sure about being such a solid example. I have my own delusions and attachments that I'm still working out. :eek:

    True, but at least they can do cool things like levitate and walk through walls. :D




    Peace,
    Mystic
     
  19. Sunstone

    Sunstone De Diablo Del Fora Staff Member Premium Member

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    Karma is ultimately just a law of nature, isn't it? Like the law of gravity. So, does the law of gravity need a negative? Does any law need a negative?
     
  20. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    Religion:
    I am an advaitist Hindu and a strong atheist.
    Karma is simply action, and can have effect in this life; there is no other life.
     
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