Antecedent of Jesus' Death Narrative

[Wandering Monk]

So, I found this really interesting.

The Gospel of Luke says that at the time of Jesus' death the sun was darkened from noon for three hours. (23:44)

But Roman historian Vergil, who died in 19 BC, says that on the day Julius Caesar was assassinated, the sun was also darkened.

Who dare say the Sun is false? He and no other warns us when dark uprising threaten, when treachery and hidden wars are gathering strength. He and no other was moved to pity Rome on the day that Caesar died, when he veiled his radiance in gloom and darkness, and a godless age feared everlasting night. - Vergil, Georgics Books 1–2 – Theoi Classical Texts Library". www.theoi.com.
​

The Gospel of Matthew says that when Jesus died, there was an earthquake, and the bodies of many holy people were raised from the dead and they appeared to many people in Jerusalem. (27:50-54)

Ovid (died about 17 AD), commenting on the death of Julius Caesar says this:

The Stygian owl sounded its sad omens in a thousand places: in a thousand places ivory statues wept: and incantations, and warning words, were said to have been heard in the sacred groves. No sacrifice was favourable, and the livers were found with cleft lobes, among the entrails, warning of great and impending civil conflict. In the forum, and around men’s houses, and the temples of the gods, dogs howled at night, and they say the silent dead walked, and earthquakes shook the city. Still the gods’ warnings could not prevent the conspiracy, or fate’s fulfillment. Ovid, (Metamophoses, 15)
​

Jesus death is said to have occurred around 30 AD. That means the stories from Vergil and Ovid PREDATE the NT narratives.

It seems to me that the NT authors borrowed these motifs to set Jesus up as an alternate mythology, an antidote to emperor worship.

 

[rational experiences]

In 17AD there was an earthquake.

And the term in secret meaning tectonic is the Carpenter.

So if you said a newly cooled Earth event placed life on Earth into a cold spatial zero count 0 and then life of the Father was sacrificed as a male adult in the Year 33AD.

And a huge disaster was activated because you were secretly doing occult science in the Temple and pyramid....then you did.

The excuse the occult organization in science has been using for years was that maths and science information was not even being applied then.

Oh, that is right lying occultists, you were doing it secretly in the use of secret words using secret books.

Science knew what it was talking about inferring the holy life of human Genetics had been returning and reincarnating due to atmospheric cooling.

As seen by wandering star stone removal, but cold gas release. Which cooled down Earth attacked by Sun irradiated space history.

The theme from Moses as DNA assessment, its mutation to its returned Genetic reborn life.

A medical journal about life attacked by nuclear sciences.

If the Sun owned historically a male science description as science inventor, males as an agreed brotherhood of human lives, meaning peers and by peers, who contradicted life....then other males had to learn science also. To contradict scientists contradicting life.

Which means that Earth owning gas light atmospheric burning seems to state that the gases stopped burning...which would only mean so Earth began to fall deeper into cold space...for it was being sucked down.

The only reason why an atmosphere of burning gases owning light by Sun would suddenly go dark.

And gee, I think it would have been really frightening if you were living back then, so scary in fact that you would have all stopped doing science.

 

[Spartan]

So, I found this really interesting.

The Gospel of Luke says that at the time of Jesus' death the sun was darkened from noon for three hours. (23:44)

​

Jesus death is said to have occurred around 30 AD. That means the stories from Vergil and Ovid PREDATE the NT narratives.

It seems to me that the NT authors borrowed these motifs to set Jesus up as an alternate mythology, an antidote to emperor worship.

Prove it.

The darkened sun of Jesus' crucifixion day was foretold many centuries before Julius Caesar died. So, according to your logic, Virgil must have borrowed the idea from the Biblical prophet Amos.

"According to Amos 1:1, (the prophet) Amos prophesied during the reigns of Uzziah, king of Judah (767-739 B.C.), and Jeroboam, king of Israel (782-753 B.C.)."

“‘In that day,’ declares the Sovereign Lord, ‘I will make the sun go down at noon and darken the earth in broad daylight….I will make that time like mourning for an only son, and the end of it like a bitter day.'” (Amos 8:9-10)

And the darkened sun miracle was reported by a number of post-Biblical individuals.

Here's more on that:

Documenting A Miracle

 

[Wandering Monk]

Prove it.

The darkened sun of Jesus' crucifixion day was foretold many centuries before Julius Caesar died. So, according to your logic, Virgil must have borrowed the idea from the Biblical prophet Amos.

"According to Amos 1:1, (the prophet) Amos prophesied during the reigns of Uzziah, king of Judah (767-739 B.C.), and Jeroboam, king of Israel (782-753 B.C.)."

“‘In that day,’ declares the Sovereign Lord, ‘I will make the sun go down at noon and darken the earth in broad daylight….I will make that time like mourning for an only son, and the end of it like a bitter day.'” (Amos 8:9-10)

And the darkened sun miracle was reported by a number of post-Biblical individuals.

Here's more on that:

Documenting A Miracle

If you look at the context of Amos, you will see that it has nothing to do with the crucifixion. It is only a Christian spin on the text.

As for darkness at the crucifixion, sure it could have happened, but these accounts say nothing about the DATE of that darkening.

Care to address the story of the dead coming out of their graves when Caesar was assassinated?

 

[1213]

...Ovid (died about 17 AD), commenting on the death of Julius Caesar says this:...

Why do you believe it is that old, if oldest manuscripts are from 9th century?

In spite of the Metamorphoses' enduring popularity from its first publication (around the time of Ovid's exile in 8 AD) no manuscript survives from antiquity. From the 9th and 10th centuries there are only fragments of the poem; it is only from the 11th century onwards that manuscripts, of varying value, have been passed down.
Metamorphoses - Wikipedia

 

[Wandering Monk]

Why do you believe it is that old, if oldest manuscripts are from 9th century?

In spite of the Metamorphoses' enduring popularity from its first publication (around the time of Ovid's exile in 8 AD) no manuscript survives from antiquity. From the 9th and 10th centuries there are only fragments of the poem; it is only from the 11th century onwards that manuscripts, of varying value, have been passed down.
Metamorphoses - Wikipedia

So, you believe that these are forgeries in Ovid's name?

Ovid died in 17 CE.

 

[rational experiences]

Prove it.

The darkened sun of Jesus' crucifixion day was foretold many centuries before Julius Caesar died. So, according to your logic, Virgil must have borrowed the idea from the Biblical prophet Amos.

"According to Amos 1:1, (the prophet) Amos prophesied during the reigns of Uzziah, king of Judah (767-739 B.C.), and Jeroboam, king of Israel (782-753 B.C.)."

“‘In that day,’ declares the Sovereign Lord, ‘I will make the sun go down at noon and darken the earth in broad daylight….I will make that time like mourning for an only son, and the end of it like a bitter day.'” (Amos 8:9-10)

And the darkened sun miracle was reported by a number of post-Biblical individuals.

Here's more on that:

Documenting A Miracle

The only condition that a group and especially males as that brotherhood own that is predictable, was the fact that SCIENCE, the state of and all conditions SCIENCE was researched and applied by human males, on behalf of their owned human conscious thoughts.

Therefore cause and effect of science was also predictable when science was being used as technology.

Science and technology the Temples from the mountains to the mount, to the Pyramid relay. Why the floor plan design of the Temples looks like the inside of a transistor radio.

In ancient times they were doing a form of nuclear technology up until it blasted the Temple and destroyed it.

Why it was predictable.

 

[Spartan]

If you look at the context of Amos, you will see that it has nothing to do with the crucifixion. It is only a Christian spin on the text.

Sorry, not buying that. It's Messianic. It's also a lot clearer than what you have by Vergil. Vergil's is so muddled there's no way Christians would have adopted that. You also have no evidence they ever did borrow it - just the same lame conjecture that's typical of those kinds of far out claims.

 

[Muffled]

So, I found this really interesting.

The Gospel of Luke says that at the time of Jesus' death the sun was darkened from noon for three hours. (23:44)

But Roman historian Vergil, who died in 19 BC, says that on the day Julius Caesar was assassinated, the sun was also darkened.

Who dare say the Sun is false? He and no other warns us when dark uprising threaten, when treachery and hidden wars are gathering strength. He and no other was moved to pity Rome on the day that Caesar died, when he veiled his radiance in gloom and darkness, and a godless age feared everlasting night. - Vergil, Georgics Books 1–2 – Theoi Classical Texts Library". www.theoi.com.
​

The Gospel of Matthew says that when Jesus died, there was an earthquake, and the bodies of many holy people were raised from the dead and they appeared to many people in Jerusalem. (27:50-54)

Ovid (died about 17 AD), commenting on the death of Julius Caesar says this:

The Stygian owl sounded its sad omens in a thousand places: in a thousand places ivory statues wept: and incantations, and warning words, were said to have been heard in the sacred groves. No sacrifice was favourable, and the livers were found with cleft lobes, among the entrails, warning of great and impending civil conflict. In the forum, and around men’s houses, and the temples of the gods, dogs howled at night, and they say the silent dead walked, and earthquakes shook the city. Still the gods’ warnings could not prevent the conspiracy, or fate’s fulfillment. Ovid, (Metamophoses, 15)
​

Jesus death is said to have occurred around 30 AD. That means the stories from Vergil and Ovid PREDATE the NT narratives.

It seems to me that the NT authors borrowed these motifs to set Jesus up as an alternate mythology, an antidote to emperor worship.

I believe I breathed air. So since you breathe air also you must be me. I believe that kind of logic is akin to yours.

 

[1213]

So, you believe that these are forgeries in Ovid's name?

Ovid died in 17 CE.

I just don’t know why believe it is that old.

 

[Wandering Monk]

I just don’t know why believe it is that old.

Because it was attributed to Ovid who died in 17 CE.

 

[cataway]

you all dont believe God can control light ?

 

[paarsurrey]

So, I found this really interesting.

The Gospel of Luke says that at the time of Jesus' death the sun was darkened from noon for three hours. (23:44)

But Roman historian Vergil, who died in 19 BC, says that on the day Julius Caesar was assassinated, the sun was also darkened.

Who dare say the Sun is false? He and no other warns us when dark uprising threaten, when treachery and hidden wars are gathering strength. He and no other was moved to pity Rome on the day that Caesar died, when he veiled his radiance in gloom and darkness, and a godless age feared everlasting night. - Vergil, Georgics Books 1–2 – Theoi Classical Texts Library". www.theoi.com.
​

The Gospel of Matthew says that when Jesus died, there was an earthquake, and the bodies of many holy people were raised from the dead and they appeared to many people in Jerusalem. (27:50-54)

Ovid (died about 17 AD), commenting on the death of Julius Caesar says this:

The Stygian owl sounded its sad omens in a thousand places: in a thousand places ivory statues wept: and incantations, and warning words, were said to have been heard in the sacred groves. No sacrifice was favourable, and the livers were found with cleft lobes, among the entrails, warning of great and impending civil conflict. In the forum, and around men’s houses, and the temples of the gods, dogs howled at night, and they say the silent dead walked, and earthquakes shook the city. Still the gods’ warnings could not prevent the conspiracy, or fate’s fulfillment. Ovid, (Metamophoses, 15)
​

Jesus death is said to have occurred around 30 AD. That means the stories from Vergil and Ovid PREDATE the NT narratives.

It seems to me that the NT authors borrowed these motifs to set Jesus up as an alternate mythology, an antidote to emperor worship.

Jesus "death" did not occur on the Cross, he survived miraculously and died naturally much later. The Gospel's narratives should be understood with caution, please. Right, please?

Regards

 

[cataway]

Jesus "death" did not occur on the Cross, he survived miraculously and died naturally much later. The Gospel's narratives should be understood with caution, please. Right, please?

Regards

Perhaps you don't understand . No one survives the steak

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

It seems to me that the NT authors borrowed these motifs to set Jesus up as an alternate mythology, an antidote to emperor worship.

Shocking!

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Prove it.

What a remarkably childish report.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

you all dont believe God can control light ?

The question is laughably irrelevant. Try again.

 

[cataway]

The question is laughably irrelevant. Try again.

perhaps the powers of God go beyond your ability to comprehend what he can do.

 

[Spartan]

What a remarkably childish report.

Back at you. You guys love to belch out "prove it" to believers, but can't stand it when you have to back up your own inane, sophomoric rants.

 

[paarsurrey]

Perhaps you don't understand . No one survives the steak

Many in Philippines bear the mock Crucifixion, yet they survive:

"Crucifixion in the Philippines is a devotional practice held every Good Friday, and is part of the local observance of Holy Week. Devotees or penitents called magdarame in Kapampangan are willingly crucified in imitation of Jesus Christ's suffering and death, while related practices include carrying wooden crosses, crawling on rough pavement, and self-flagellation. Penitents considered these acts to be mortification of the flesh, and undertake these to ask forgiveness for sins, to fulfil a panatà (Filipino, "vow"), or to express gratitude for favours granted."

Crucifixion in the Philippines - Wikipedia

Right, please?

Regards