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Featured Another version of ontological argument.

Discussion in 'Theism' started by Link, Oct 21, 2021.

  1. Redemptionsong

    Redemptionsong Well-Known Member

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    Faith, l understand, is the only means of accessing absolute truth. Faith allows absolute truth to become a reality in a person's life.

    Only God is absolute truth, so this is not faith in just 'anything'.
     
  2. TagliatelliMonster

    TagliatelliMonster Veteran Member

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    Love is an emotion.

    Let's just cut to the chase here................

    Circularity is a thing that is concerned with reasoning and making arguments.

    The word "truth" or "Truth" is not reasoning, nor is it an argument of any kind.
    So you are misapplying the label "circularity" here.

    It makes no sense at all.
    It's just word salad.
     
  3. TagliatelliMonster

    TagliatelliMonster Veteran Member

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    On faith, you can believe anything. Including false things.
    So what you say makes zero sense.

    Your beliefs aren't "truth" simply because you believe them.
     
  4. Redemptionsong

    Redemptionsong Well-Known Member

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    Love is more than an emotion.

    Love also transcends reasoning. If it were possible to define love, then love itself would be a logical concept. But, it is not possible to define love except by using other 'circular' definitions. Love is perfect goodness. But what is perfect goodness?
     
  5. TagliatelliMonster

    TagliatelliMonster Veteran Member

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    I don't see how.

    Not sure what you mean by "transcends", but no emotion is based on "reason" in any case.
    Love is no exception.

    Sorry, but I'm growing tired of the vague abstract word salad.
     
  6. viole

    viole Ontological Naturalist
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    Yes, but I make the assumption here that you do not dictate what valid imagination is, and what is not. Since that would undermine the whole argument.

    So, if I really try hard, any imagination I can have of a greater being is nowhere close to the God of traditional beliefs. Like God, or Allah, or whatever.

    Now, my imagination of a greater being is not even close to those beings. Why? They look to me, with all due respect, to suffer from the same problems as a spoiled teenager. Namely, a juvenile psychological problem, and a person with a problem with her Ego. For instance, their requirement of being worshipped by the beings they created seems quite indicative of a pathological low-esteem syndrome; which I would not expect in the greatest being.

    So, the logical conclusion is inescapable. If your argument is true, and atheists have a reliable imagination about that necessary being, then you are wasting your time by worshipping her.

    Ciao

    - viole
     
  7. Link

    Link Well-Known Member
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    Discovering who God is is irrelevant to the proof.
     
  8. mikkel_the_dane

    mikkel_the_dane Shadow Wolf's Aspie sibling

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    Well, then it is sort of not useful.
    God created us and that is all we know about us.

    Not that I believe in the proof.
     
  9. Link

    Link Well-Known Member
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    It's useful because you know God exists by it.
     
  10. viole

    viole Ontological Naturalist
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    Not really, since the proof relies on my imagination of a greater being, then the same can be used to exclude some gods.
    For instance, my imagination tells me that a greater being does not care for worship. A god who requires worshipping from lesser beings is not great at all.

    Therefore, if the argument holds, then you are wasting your time if you worship whomever you worship.

    Ciao

    - viole
     
  11. Link

    Link Well-Known Member
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    It's not about imagining but actually recognizing traits of God/Necessary Being.
     
  12. mikkel_the_dane

    mikkel_the_dane Shadow Wolf's Aspie sibling

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    Yeah, and that is all in you brain. Philosophical rationalism has a limit.
     
  13. Link

    Link Well-Known Member
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    We are in our brains too.
     
    #133 Link, Oct 27, 2021
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2021
  14. viole

    viole Ontological Naturalist
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    Yes, and necessary beings do not need any worship. You should realise that.

    Ciao

    - viole
     
  15. mikkel_the_dane

    mikkel_the_dane Shadow Wolf's Aspie sibling

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    There is no one brain as our.
     
  16. Link

    Link Well-Known Member
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    There is only one necessary being possible by definition and yes it does not need our worship while we do need it.
     
  17. Link

    Link Well-Known Member
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    Thanks I fixed it.
     
  18. viole

    viole Ontological Naturalist
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    Do you need to be worshipped?

    ciO

    - viole
     
  19. mikkel_the_dane

    mikkel_the_dane Shadow Wolf's Aspie sibling

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    There is still no our brains as 2 brains become one. They are all individual in at least some sense.
     
  20. Link

    Link Well-Known Member
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    I need respect and love from God and good servants of God. I don't need to be worshiped because I am not truly the highest being to be valued. It would be claiming something falsely.

    I also don't need to be exalted as that is a station for God's chosen.

    I want to be deemed great in God's eyes and believers eyes though. Really badly that I am willing to sacrifice all pleasures of this world and temporary life to attain that rank in God's eyes, his exalted chosen ones eyes and of believers eyes.

    God is higher then all exalted ones, he is exalted, but his divinity is that, but at a much ultimately higher level to the extent there is no comparing him with his chosen servants. Although they are pointers to God and are his names and images, at the end, finite is nothing compared to the absolute being.

    God doesn't need to be worshiped, but we need to worship it, because it's the being who being in love intoxicates the soul in a good way, is sweet like honey in a good way, and wanting his exalted chosen servants is linked to wanting him because they constantly connect us to God and make us return to God.

    Recognizing God is key to happiness, but not only that, it's the only way to protect ourselves from the dark world of confusion and illusions of Iblis. We have to take haven in the cave of oneness of God. Worship him sincerely.

    Secrets when we embarking the ships that are his names, open up, when we do. Secrets of the universe and world of God's healing power vs dark sorcery of Iblis will become clear.

    And if God didn't believe in you or me, he wouldn't have not put us in this trial. We all can pass his tests and trials.
     
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