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Another 2nd Amendment/gun control thread.

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
So is what happened in Florida.
I recommend giving that post some thought.
There's still time to edit it.
And I can delete my response so that yours won't live on in all its current glory.
 
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Father Heathen

Veteran Member
I disagree. A constitution is a foundation for a country. The framers of the Constitution for the US knew what they were doing and placed in essential safeguards that cannot be messed around with.

A constitution is pretty damned important if you value your rights and freedom. That said, they can be adjusted (slavery and prohibition, for example.)
 

suncowiam

Well-Known Member
Listening to all the atheists promote the second amendment like it was a Bible is hypocritical.

So now, we debate with interpretation like theists do with their Bible? We assume that the second amendment is the holy grail of anti government corruption?

Isn't that what gun advocates are doing? They forgo the reality and deny the statistics to obey their precious second amendment.

All I've heard are interpretations, speculations, or opinions at best.
 

dfnj

Well-Known Member
I recommend giving that post some thought.
There's still time to edit it.
And I can delete my response.

If Democrats and Liberals are responsible for killing babies by abortion then why are not NRA members responsible for mass shootings like the one in Florida.

But I will edit my post because I'm not a #(*(#)@@*)#$ like some people.
 

dfnj

Well-Known Member
Except for those who've criticized and even harassed survivors for speaking out against gun culture ("How dare they question the sacred gun! So what if they've just witnessed the murder of their class mates?"), some even go as far to accuse them of being "crisis actors", claiming that the whole thing is a "false flag" hoax and a conspiracy to disarm the citizenry.

Sandy Hook was a false flag operation. I heard it on the Internet.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Listening to all the atheists promote the second amendment like it was a Bible is hypocritical.
Then you misunderstand us.
The 2nd Amendment, like the 1st, 3rd, 4th, 5th, etc, are not scripture.
But they're the legal foundation for the country.
Any solutions we come up with had better be constitutional.
Your only other option is to try to repeal it by amendment (or constitutional convention).
I don't like waiting for that unlikely option.
Hence, my constitutionally cromulent proposals to curb gun (& other) violence.
 

Curious George

Veteran Member
At least you have some balls to say what you think.

We all know lobbyists coerce politicians to pass laws creating cartels and monopolies in exchange for campaign financing. This is why gun legislation always mentions gun models. It's PURE BS!!!

If you want to regulate guns, you need to do it based on intelligent thought. Guns should be regulated by the following:

1. Bullet caliber size
2. Possible rounds that can be fired per minute
3. Magazine size
4. Muzzle velocity
5. Range

I'm sure there are others. But once you have regulations, it has nothing to do with manufacturers or gun type or model.

If you think fully automatic weapons should be legal you are one sick individual. For hunting or personal protection there's no reason to have automatic weapons. There's no reason to turn a deer into hamburger when hunting. All you need is 1 or 2 rounds to scare off a home intruder. There's no reason to cannon handguns. There's no reason to have machine guns. There's no reason to have rifles capable of shooting 30 rounds per minute by pulling the trigger really fast. This is insanity.

These numbers are sick:

Mass Shooting Tracker

If Democrats and Liberals are to blame for killing babies by abortion then who do we blame for mass shootings like the one in Florida?
Lol, ty I guess.

A little nuance. It is not that I think these types of guns should be legal, it is that I think the process that was used was unconstitutional.

I know most people think the ends justifies the means. I don't . It is really that simple. Come up with a constitutional way to regulate guns, or change the constitution. Those are your only options. Trying to get Congress to pass laws that push the limits of constitutionality, because it makes you feel safe is not okay.

It wouldn't be right with free speech, it is not right with the right to bear arms.

It is really that simple.

If that makes me one sick individual, so be it. I can endure ad hominems.
 

Enoch07

It's all a sick freaking joke.
Premium Member
Except for those who've criticized and even harassed survivors for speaking out against gun culture ("How dare they question the sacred gun! So what if they've just witnessed the murder of their class mates?"), some even go as far to accuse them of being "crisis actors", claiming that the whole thing is a "false flag" hoax and a conspiracy to disarm the citizenry.

Ok so are we gonna talk about possible solutions or ?

I don't care about who said what.

I'm a 2nd amendment supporter. So let's talk solutions.
 

suncowiam

Well-Known Member
Then you misunderstand us.
The 2nd Amendment, like the 1st, 3rd, 4th, 5th, etc, are not scripture.
But they're the legal foundation for the country.
Any solutions we come up with had better be constitutional.
Your only other option is to try to repeal it by amendment (or constitutional convention).
I'm not willing to wait until that unlikely option.

I know what it is.

Some make of the second amendment to be irrevocably perfect that I'm drawing attention similar to a disposition of a theist to his Bible. They stop addressing the real world occurrences and data, only to defend their position with interpretations of an old parchment.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Some make of the second amendment to be irrevocably perfect that I'm drawing attention similar to a disposition of a theist to his Bible. They stop addressing the real world occurrences and data, only to defend their position with interpretations of an old parchment.
Surprisingly, there are some over the top views & imprecations hurled at us pro-gunners.
It can be impossible to get many anti-gun types to even discuss new stricter regulations.
They're too busy telling us how evil we are, & our impending fate in the Lake Of Fire.
 

Curious George

Veteran Member
I know what it is.

Some make of the second amendment to be irrevocably perfect that I'm drawing attention similar to a disposition of a theist to his Bible. They stop addressing the real world occurrences and data, only to defend their position with interpretations of an old parchment.
So you are saying you do not care about the constitution? We should just discard it and do whatever is popular at the time...

Especially given the current composition the legislative and executive branches.

That does not sound like a very good idea.
 

Enoch07

It's all a sick freaking joke.
Premium Member
I would be delighted if more would share their thoughts regarding the question in the OP.

Your question is already answered by current laws.

Nobody is using rocket launchers for mass shootings so there is no reason to talk about that. Full autos are heavily restricted and most citizens do not own full autos.

So what is you question then that's not already currently covered by law?
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
Ok so are we gonna talk about possible solutions or ?

I don't care about who said what.

I'm a 2nd amendment supporter. So let's talk solutions.

How would you feel about the following?

Here is an example of a regulation that could provide an effective compromise. If individuals want to own semi-automatic assault weapons, either as collectors or for practice shooting, then enforce a provision that such weapons can only be kept at legally registered shooting ranges or other registered depositories, and cannot be removed from the designated premises.

Similarly, if individuals want to use unusual high-powered weapons for hunting, and if such weapons are deemed to be acceptable for hunting purposes, then require that the hunters collect their weapons from a registered hunting depot and redeposit them after hunting, with the guns and ammunition properly accounted for. Or if gun enthusiasts want to visit gun shows, then fine, but purchases of regulated weapons would have to be delivered to designated sites, such as shooting ranges or hunting depots.
Gun ownership at home would be protected, according to the protections recognized in Heller. Gun ownership more broadly would also be protected, for hunting and sports shooting, but subject to protective regulation. We would end the day when a madman could lawfully own and keep powerful assault weapons wherever they like, and then carry them at will to a chosen location to murder those gathered, but still recognize the right of Americans to own, collect and shoot their weapons for lawful purposes.

Sachs: A modest proposal on guns (Opinion) - CNN
 

Enoch07

It's all a sick freaking joke.
Premium Member
How would you feel about the following?

Here is an example of a regulation that could provide an effective compromise. If individuals want to own semi-automatic assault weapons, either as collectors or for practice shooting, then enforce a provision that such weapons can only be kept at legally registered shooting ranges or other registered depositories, and cannot be removed from the designated premises.

Similarly, if individuals want to use unusual high-powered weapons for hunting, and if such weapons are deemed to be acceptable for hunting purposes, then require that the hunters collect their weapons from a registered hunting depot and redeposit them after hunting, with the guns and ammunition properly accounted for. Or if gun enthusiasts want to visit gun shows, then fine, but purchases of regulated weapons would have to be delivered to designated sites, such as shooting ranges or hunting depots.
Gun ownership at home would be protected, according to the protections recognized in Heller. Gun ownership more broadly would also be protected, for hunting and sports shooting, but subject to protective regulation. We would end the day when a madman could lawfully own and keep powerful assault weapons wherever they like, and then carry them at will to a chosen location to murder those gathered, but still recognize the right of Americans to own, collect and shoot their weapons for lawful purposes.

Sachs: A modest proposal on guns (Opinion) - CNN

That law would be unconstitutional. As the Supreme Court has already confirmed that the 2nd amendment is for private use of self defense. Here:

District of Columbia v. Heller - Wikipedia

Which means the 2nd amendment is meant for citizens to have gun on their property and themselves for purposes of self defense. A law requiring guns to be kept at a separate location is unconstitutional.
 

Flame

Beware
For those who support the 2nd Amendment, do you consider the ban on full autos and rocket launchers a violation of the 2nd amendment, or do you consider it a reasonable restriction (I assume most do)?

People shouldn't be allowed to buy full autos (without proper permits and licenses) and explosive devices.

If so, then what criteria do you believe should be used to separate what is and isn't acceptable for civilians to own?

People shouldn't be allowed to buy these rifles but not so cheaply and easily.

I shouldn't be able to drive down to my gun store, hand over $650 dollars (That was a price of a basic AR that I saw traded in this morning), wait 30 minutes for a VERY basic background check and walk out with rifle in hand.

My hunting/defense rifle is nearly $2,000 dollars when I originally bought and came with 1 5 round magazine and 1 10 round magazine. $650 is dirt cheap when they come generally come with 2 30 round magazines.
 
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