Animals and souls: part II

[Eddi]

I’ve been doing some thinking:

The other day I made a post, “Do Animals Have Souls?”

Someone pointed out that there is no evidence that anything has a soul, and I agree. However I still believe that all life forms are animated by a kind of eternal and supernatural spirit. But that’s beside the point.

I’d like to see a concept of “soul” which everyone can agree on, even the most skeptical of skeptics – a modified and secular version of the concept, which we can all hopefully accept and put to use in our daily lives

But let’s put souls to one side for a minute:

What about consciousness? We have evidence of consciousness – both our own (cogito, ergo sum) and of others (via empathy)

If we have consciousness then animals do too – they need it to survive!

Nobody can seriously argue that consciousness doesn’t exist

So what about “having a soul”?

I'd say that:

1) To be endowed with consciousness means that you can be credited with having a "soul"
2) To be credited with having a "soul" makes any entity a being
3) To be a being means that you are have an entitlement to ethical treatment

Before I believed that consciousness came from a soul

I now believe that the soul comes from being conscious

So, to rephrase my original question: Are animals beings?

I’d say yes, and that we should therefore start treating them much better

Does this work for people???

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

If you believe the Bible then you believe that Adam became a living soul. Nothing about a soul being added. Adam's body was a soul and it became alive when God breathed into it. Other animals are the saame. The word translated as "soul" is also translated as body or creature or beast. Of course if you do not believe the Bible, you can make up anything you want.

 

[Nakosis]

I’ve been doing some thinking:

The other day I made a post, “Do Animals Have Souls?”

Someone pointed out that there is no evidence that anything has a soul, and I agree. However I still believe that all life forms are animated by a kind of eternal and supernatural spirit. But that’s beside the point.

I’d like to see a concept of “soul” which everyone can agree on, even the most skeptical of skeptics – a modified and secular version of the concept, which we can all hopefully accept and put to use in our daily lives

But let’s put souls to one side for a minute:

What about consciousness? We have evidence of consciousness – both our own (cogito, ergo sum) and of others (via empathy)

If we have consciousness then animals do too – they need it to survive!

Nobody can seriously argue that consciousness doesn’t exist

So what about “having a soul”?

I'd say that:

1) To be endowed with consciousness means that you can be credited with having a "soul"
2) To be credited with having a "soul" makes any entity a being
3) To be a being means that you are have an entitlement to ethical treatment

Before I believed that consciousness came from a soul

I now believe that the soul comes from being conscious

So, to rephrase my original question: Are animals beings?

I’d say yes, and that we should therefore start treating them much better

Does this work for people???

There's consciousness and self-consciousness. Consciousness is simply an awareness of what is surrounding "you". An awareness, being conscious, of the reality around you. I'd argue that even a computer AI system can have consciousness in this sense. Self awareness, self consciousness is more an awareness of being aware. You question how you are aware and the causation behind your awareness.

I treat animals as living beings. I treat my car as a living being. I know it's not but there is some facsimile there. An empathy of life, which may or may not actually exist.

 

[ChristineM]

I would say that

1) To be endowed with consciousness means that you can be credited with having consciousness... No leaps of faith for me.
2) To be credited with having consciousness makes any entity a conscious entity
3) To be a concious entity means that you are have an entitlement to ethical treatment

 

[leov]

I’ve been doing some thinking:

The other day I made a post, “Do Animals Have Souls?”

Someone pointed out that there is no evidence that anything has a soul, and I agree. However I still believe that all life forms are animated by a kind of eternal and supernatural spirit. But that’s beside the point.

I’d like to see a concept of “soul” which everyone can agree on, even the most skeptical of skeptics – a modified and secular version of the concept, which we can all hopefully accept and put to use in our daily lives

But let’s put souls to one side for a minute:

What about consciousness? We have evidence of consciousness – both our own (cogito, ergo sum) and of others (via empathy)

If we have consciousness then animals do too – they need it to survive!

Nobody can seriously argue that consciousness doesn’t exist

So what about “having a soul”?

I'd say that:

1) To be endowed with consciousness means that you can be credited with having a "soul"
2) To be credited with having a "soul" makes any entity a being
3) To be a being means that you are have an entitlement to ethical treatment

Before I believed that consciousness came from a soul

I now believe that the soul comes from being conscious

So, to rephrase my original question: Are animals beings?

I’d say yes, and that we should therefore start treating them much better

Does this work for people???

i think everything has some sort of a soul... e.g., what makes a chrystal chrystal?

 

[Epic Beard Man]

There's consciousness and self-consciousness.

There is only one conscious how do you make two types?

 

[Nakosis]

There is only one conscious how do you make two types?

What do you think being conscious consists of?

Begins with levels of being conscious. The idea that even a thermostat, awareness and reaction to the temperature is being conscious of surroundings. (Conversation wanders off to freewill and soul if you are interested)

So I see a computer system can be conscious to a certain level. I see self conscious as an awareness of being aware. An additional "feed back" of seeing one's self as an entity experiencing all of this environmental feedback.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

What do you think being conscious consists of?

Begins with levels of being conscious. The idea that even a thermostat, awareness and reaction to the temperature is being conscious of surroundings. (Conversation wanders off to freewill and soul if you are interested)

So I see a computer system can be conscious to a certain level. I see self conscious as an awareness of being aware. An additional "feed back" of seeing one's self as an entity experiencing all of this environmental feedback.

Great video but this is just a theoretical way of explaining Freudian psychoanalytic theory. There is no definite agreement even among psychologists that there are different types of consciousness. By the way isn't the guy in the video a theoretical physicist?

 

[IndigoChild5559]

We even have evidence that plants are conscious.

 

[Nakosis]

Great video but this is just a theoretical way of explaining Freudian psychoanalytic theory. There is no definite agreement even among psychologists that there are different types of consciousness. By the way isn't the guy in the video a theoretical physicist?

True, two levels, four levels, nine - ten levels. Lots of different ideas. This is just the way I see it.