Animalia + Soul

[Morse]

I have a burning question for all religious people. A question that has been asked many a time, around many a campfire at bible camp.

Do animals have souls?

Why do animals have souls? Why DON'T animals have souls?

Are we animals?

What are the requirements for having a soul?

 

[Runewolf1973]

Everything in existence is just energy and matter in different forms. As humans, we are no more energy or matter than an animal or even a plant or a rock. Human ego creates the notion of "we are better than they" type of thinking. Erase the ego and you will find that there are no greater or lesser "things". All is just one energy or essence, one existence of which we are just a part. The animals are just as much a part of it as are we. Everything, all energy and matter has this causative, activating force or principal that can be called "soul" or "spirit" in my opinion. Everything in existence moves, vibrates, and has an action and a reaction. Everything is "spirited" in a way by some energy or force. It is not something supernatural, it is real and it exists. I call it Spirit.

 

[Madhuri]

Of course animals have souls. Anything living has a soul.
That's the Hindu perspective and my perspective.

 

[Morse]

Thank you for the responses!

I always enjoy Runewolf's perspective on these matters, makes sense to me. I mean, even if were speaking from a strictly empirical stand point, his view works. In fact, it works best that way!

Of course animals have souls. Anything living has a soul.
That's the Hindu perspective and my perspective.

Why do animals have souls? Are we considered animals as well? Or do we share a soul with animals regardless of our status?

Does any living thing include bacteria, protists, fungi, and the like?

And Thank you for your perspective! It is good so far, if a bit vague.

 

[MSizer]

Despite having a certain respect for Descartes' philosophy, I've never heard a convincing argument for the existence of immaterial souls. I think that dualism is an incorrect interpretation of living beings.

So in short, no, nobody does.

 

[Madhuri]

Thank you for the responses!

I always enjoy Runewolf's perspective on these matters, makes sense to me. I mean, even if were speaking from a strictly empirical stand point, his view works. In fact, it works best that way!



Why do animals have souls? Are we considered animals as well? Or do we share a soul with animals regardless of our status?

Does any living thing include bacteria, protists, fungi, and the like?

And Thank you for your perspective! It is good so far, if a bit vague.

First it's important to have a concept of the soul. What is it? When Christians think of a soul they think something slightly different to a Hindu. Hinduism teaches that the indicidual -is- a soul. This soul is life, it is consciousness. It is a spark of God (the Whole) who is also life and consciousness (and a bunch of other things if we were to get more involved). Any living thing is a soul (or the body contains a soul/individual) as a soul -is- life.

The only difference between you, a plant or animal or bacteria is the external body. Every soul begins its journey in the body of the lowest life form and slowly progress or 'evolve' into more complex bodies. The soul/consciousness depends on the physical body to experience and evolve. This all leads to a point in time when the individual reaches the highest platform where enlightenment occurs and the soul is liberated from samsara (cycle of birth/death) and 'goes to god'.

So we've all been various species of animal and plant life. We've already existed for eternity...we've had a lot of experience.

 

[Madhuri]

Despite having a certain respect for Descartes' philosophy, I've never heard a convincing argument for the existence of immaterial souls. I think that dualism is an incorrect interpretation of living beings.

So in short, no, nobody does.

Dualism is an illusion according to most eastern philosophies.

 

[MSizer]

Dualism is an illusion according to most eastern philosophies.

I agree with that statement. Although, I don't agree with the commonly eastern notion that souls exist, let alone progress through various bodies. I believe the concept of a soul is an illusion too. (no disrespect intended to those who do believe, just my honest opinion).

 

[Madhuri]

I agree with that statement. Although, I don't agree with the commonly eastern notion that souls exist, let alone progress through various bodies. I believe the concept of a soul is an illusion too. (no disrespect intended to those who do believe, just my honest opinion).

Actually Buddhists don't believe in the soul or individual. It's just us Hindus that seem to *sigh*
(You are far from disrespectful)

 

[katiafish]

All living creatures are individualized units of Universal Consciousness incarnate.

 

[GiantHouseKey]

Greetings

I have a similar view to Runewolf...

...Well, it is similar in the same way that my garden pond and a waterfall are similar. Made of the same stuff, arranged in a very different way

There are some anal differences and some religious context that is slightly different but other than that it is pretty much the same... Except that I don't believe it is real in the same way that he does.

And I call it Aeya.

GhK.

 

[Hovind's Bulldog]

Every living thing is blessed with a soul, yet this soul stuff is manifested differently and spread out upon the living universe like dark matter, and like dark matter this soul stuff is indetectable and woven throughout most of the universe.
When God insitigated all that is, God suffused inanimate matter with soul matter and the varying levels of cognition in the living world reflect this all the way from bacteria to humans. The soul burns brightest in God's greatest creation like the most vivid color perceptible to the human eye, then decreases in intensity as the light moves down the scale of life where it glows softly within the bacterial world.

 

[MSizer]

Every living thing is blessed with a soul, yet this soul stuff is manifested differently and spread out upon the living universe like dark matter, and like dark matter this soul stuff is indetectable and woven throughout most of the universe.
When God insitigated all that is, God suffused inanimate matter with soul matter and the varying levels of cognition in the living world reflect this all the way from bacteria to humans. The soul burns brightest in God's greatest creation like the most vivid color perceptible to the human eye, then decreases in intensity as the light moves down the scale of life where it glows softly within the bacterial world.

May I ask how you think you know this? (of course yes I do disagree, but I'm not so much challenging you for the sake of being adversive, but because I want to understand what would draw you to such a conclusion. It is as foreign to me as anything I could have imagined)

 

[Hovind's Bulldog]

May I ask how you think you know this? (of course yes I do disagree, but I'm not so much challenging you for the sake of being adversive, but because I want to understand what would draw you to such a conclusion. It is as foreign to me as anything I could have imagined)

I don't know this anymore than anything can be known. I am at the mercy of my senses and the knowledge my ancestors have gathered. Only God is all knowing and only God can know in the ultimate sense. It is inductively inferred- there are multiple avenues of knowledge I can point to from the Bible to science and its verification of God's word.

 

[Nepenthe]

Despite having a certain respect for Descartes' philosophy, I've never heard a convincing argument for the existence of immaterial souls. I think that dualism is an incorrect interpretation of living beings.

So in short, no, nobody does.

I'm in the same boat.

I don't know this anymore than anything can be known. I am at the mercy of my senses and the knowledge my ancestors have gathered. Only God is all knowing and only God can know in the ultimate sense. It is inductively inferred- there are multiple avenues of knowledge I can point to from the Bible to science and its verification of God's word.

Have these "multiple avenues of knowledge" been verified? Any evidence to back this up?

 

[Morse]

I detest how I seem to miss these conversations whilst at school!

For Madhuri -
Thank you for the clarifications on your concept of "souls" etc.. The more I learn of eastern religions and even some others such as runewolf's form of animism, the more I find myself agreeing with them on certain topics! But not all of course

Greetings

I have a similar view to Runewolf...

...Well, it is similar in the same way that my garden pond and a waterfall are similar. Made of the same stuff, arranged in a very different way

There are some anal differences and some religious context that is slightly different but other than that it is pretty much the same... Except that I don't believe it is real in the same way that he does.

And I call it Aeya.

GhK.

Feel free to elaborate. I'd enjoy hearing about the differences in your two beliefs.

Every living thing is blessed with a soul, yet this soul stuff is manifested differently and spread out upon the living universe like dark matter, and like dark matter this soul stuff is indetectable and woven throughout most of the universe.
When God insitigated all that is, God suffused inanimate matter with soul matter and the varying levels of cognition in the living world reflect this all the way from bacteria to humans. The soul burns brightest in God's greatest creation like the most vivid color perceptible to the human eye, then decreases in intensity as the light moves down the scale of life where it glows softly within the bacterial world.

I see what you mean, but will reserve further conversation until you have revealed the path that lead to this particular inference.


And at Msizer and Nepenthe, thank you for your contributions as well.

Regards,
Morse

 

[Runewolf1973]

It is my view that energy and matter would not have the ability to change form or have an action/reaction if there were not some activating principal or force behind it. Something that triggers this movement to begin with (not necessarily what we know as consciousness, but perhaps some force similar though?). Existence is very much "animated" for some reason. Even a simple rock vibrates full of energy. What causes this vibration? Just because we don't know exactly what causes it or initiates it, why should we be led to assume it is something "supernatural"? So far everything else in the known Universe is naturally existing. In my opinion, so too should this "cause" to the "effect" of what is existence be something natural.

 

[Morse]

No. A thousand times no. In short, the soul is what allows us to recognize God for who and what He is and to aspire to exhibit all of His Godly attributes (hence being created in His image). In fact, our souls are in a constant struggle with our animalistic nature. You know, chastity versus horniness. Patience over the urge to beat someone in the face with a stapler because they don't understand that you can't print off 200 pages of double sided color copies and have them spiral bound in five minutes and I understand you need the job done but if you don't shut up your nose will quickly concave in on itself and I will enjoy every last second of it even though God frowns upon such things.

So...

You work at a printing shop?

EDIT: Do you have a denomination? If so, what would it be? I am assuming you are of an abrahamic religion, or a similar tangent.

 

[Runewolf1973]

Every living thing is blessed with a soul, yet this soul stuff is manifested differently and spread out upon the living universe like dark matter, and like dark matter this soul stuff is indetectable and woven throughout most of the universe.
When God insitigated all that is, God suffused inanimate matter with soul matter and the varying levels of cognition in the living world reflect this all the way from bacteria to humans. The soul burns brightest in God's greatest creation like the most vivid color perceptible to the human eye, then decreases in intensity as the light moves down the scale of life where it glows softly within the bacterial world.

Please tell me of what this so-called "inanimate matter" is for I do not know of such thing to exist. It is apparent to me (should even be apparent to scientists for that matter) that all matter is vibrational, has the ability to change form and has an action and a reaction. What is not "animated" about this?

 

[Runewolf1973]

This is what I find interesting...

From Wikipedia the free encyclopedia:
"In the natural sciences, abiogenesis, or "chemical evolution", is the study of how life on Earth could have arisen from inanimate matter."

If one views the term "animate" as having the ability or quality of movement, what makes energy or matter so "inanimate"? Therefore in my opinion, "animate" life arose from "animate" matter. It no longer leaves the question as to where life came from. Everything is life, all is animate. This vibrational force, whatever it is, (I call it Spirit, some call it "soul") exists in all things. Even rocks, plants, and animals have this animating factor. Just because something like a rock for instance, moves or changes form at an atomic level so slow that we cannot witness with our own eyes, does that mean that it does not move or is not vibrational? I think not, but that's just my opinion. It is my belief that our own human consciousness is just another form (perhaps a more highly evolved state) of the same action/reaction effect that exists in all matter. With our human level of awareness, we are capable of a much more sophisticated action/reaction to things than say the actions/reactions of simple matter, like a rock for instance. It seems apparent that the further one moves up this chain of life, the greater and more advanced those actions/reactions become. A plant reacts more than a rock, an insect reacts more than a plant, an animal reacts more than an insect, and a human reacts...well...sometimes humans just overreact.

 

[Mr Cheese]

Everything in existence is just energy and matter in different forms. As humans, we are no more energy or matter than an animal or even a plant or a rock. Human ego creates the notion of "we are better than they" type of thinking. Erase the ego and you will find that there are no greater or lesser "things". All is just one energy or essence, one existence of which we are just a part. The animals are just as much a part of it as are we. Everything, all energy and matter has this causative, activating force or principal that can be called "soul" or "spirit" in my opinion. Everything in existence moves, vibrates, and has an action and a reaction. Everything is "spirited" in a way by some energy or force. It is not something supernatural, it is real and it exists. I call it Spirit.

while the unenlightend and ignorant may say people are "superior" actually a more correct way is to say "different"

animal, mineral and vegetable consciousness are certain modes of being

needing a home
breeding
having food

etc.

these form the animal, mineral (so often forgotten, yes rocks have a consciousness too) and plant being. The vast majority of people essentially walk arund participating within a mix of all three kinds of being.

It is thus the seeker, that knows there is more to life...and goes beyond such things. It is this that is labelled "better."

there are of course many ways to see this.
This is perhaps the least rascist