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"And what is the covenant?"

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by John D. Brey, Feb 25, 2018.

  1. John D. Brey

    John D. Brey Well-Known Member

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    In Rashi's commentary on Genesis 17:7 he quotes the Torah: "I will uphold my covenant." To which Rashi replies, "And what is the covenant?" ----- Indeed.




    John
     
  2. John D. Brey

    John D. Brey Well-Known Member

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    The Hebrew word for "covenant" is brit ברית. ----- It's the word for "house" beit בית with one additional letter, the reish ר. ----- The reish symbolizes "first" or "firstborn" (the Hebrew word "rosh," or "reish"), such that the "covenant" can be rightly thought to be the "house" בית of the "firstborn" ר. -----E.g. ב–ר–ית. -----The Greek word for "covenant" is diatheke διαθηκη (Luke 22:20).

    . . . We've been in this house before and found no firstborn. I've higher hopes this go around. I'm convinced we just didn't look hard enough the first go round.



    John
     
  3. John D. Brey

    John D. Brey Well-Known Member

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    As pointed out earlier in the thread, the word for "covenant" means the "house of the head," or "house of the firstborn," i.e., the Hebrew beit בית ("house") with the letter representing the "first," or "head," or "first of all" ---- the letter reish ר. -----The Hebrew for "covenant" is ב–ר–ית. -----A "house" housing the reish ר, the head of the world (king messiah). -----Adam was the original ברית covenant, the original home בית of God's covenant ר to mankind. But he fell before the firstborn of creation ר came out of the house בית. -----Cain usurped the head of the world and started a new epoch of fallen humanity. The covenant was broken.

    The combination of ברית and נתן almost never occurs elsewhere. . .. It is possible, then, that ואתנה בריתי does not mean "I will establish with you a new covenant," but, rather, "I will transfer to you an existing covenant."

    The Hirsch Chumash at Genesis 17:2.​

    Rabbi Hirsch points out that God is transferring the original covenant between God and Adam to Abraham after Adam and Noah fail to give birth to the head of all nations (Adam instead births the ******* Cain, and Noah births the ******* Canaan). -----The original intent was for Adam to birth the firstborn of the original (prelapse) covenant. So after the Fall, Abraham is slated to become what Adam was supposed to be, and what Noah failed to be: the progenitor of the firstborn of creation, i.e., the progenitor of the head ר of all nations (king messiah).

    Rabbi Hirsch points out something completely destabilizing to the very religion he taught. He points out that נתן (natan) is out of place in the context. He tries to fix it by pointing out that the word implies that an existing covenant, and not a new covenant is being made with Abraham. But sound exegesis goes much further than that. The correct translation is extremely destructive to modern Judaism's sensibilities. It says: " . . . the father of the multitude of nations I will give to you." Abraham isn't the father of the "multitude of nations." On the contrary, he is the progenitor of the "father of the multitude of nations" (king messiah). King Messiah is the father of the multitude of nations. Abraham is merely his progenitor, as Adam was slated to be his progenitor. He, king messiah, is the root and offspring of Adam, Noah, and Abraham, David too.

    What is the meaning of this latter phrase? To maintain that it refers to Avraham's physical descendants is difficult, for they are mentioned only in verse 6. The name "אברהם" also shows that, here, the phrase is not to be taken in the physical sense. Were אב meant to be taken literally, in the physical sense, the form of the name would be "אבהם," and the ר would be meaningless and disruptive.

    Ibid.​

    This is one of those brutally naked statements from Rabbi Hirsch. He points out that verse 5 of Genesis 17 isn't talking about Abraham's "physical descendants" (Ishmael and Isaac, Israel and Islam). ------Let that sink in a minute Grasshopper. -----Rabbi Hirsch says verse 5 of Genesis 17 isn't speaking of Israel, or Islam (Abraham's physical descendants):

    You are no longer to be called Avram, but [instead] your name is to be Avraham, for I have appointed you as father of the multitude of nations.

    Hirsch translation of Genesis 17:5.​

    Though he bolixes up his own exegesis to correct what's said above (since it's too destabilizing even for him), nevertheless, Rabbi Hirsch still says this verse isn't speaking of Israel or Islam (Abraham's physical descendants).---- Rabbi Hirsch says the verse is difficult since it doesn't speak of Israel or Islam, the physical descendants of Abraham. But he can't go all the way by giving the legitimate translation which says:

    You are no longer to be called Avram, but [instead] your name is to be Avraham, for I have given [נתן] you the father of the multitude of nations.​

    Who is this "multitude of nations" Abraham is given the father of if not Israel and Islam? ----And what about the reish ר. Rabbi Hirsch says it's the problem. It shouldn't be there if Abraham is to himself be the father of a multitude of physical descendants since that would be, as the Rabbi points out, אבהם, with the reish ר is missing Grasshopper. ------If God is saying that the covenant will make Abram the father of Israel and Islam (Isaac and Ishmael) then there would be no reish ר since, as Rabbi Hirsch points out, the reish is meaningless and disruptive. -----But as a scholar like Rabbi Hirsch will no doubt tell you, the Torah isn't big on meaningless and disruptive. -----So it's merely the case that the reish ר is meaningless and disruptive to the interpretation you might get from Tumah that glories in the falsehood that Abraham's physical, natural, descendants are what the covenant established with Abraham is all about.

    Rabbi Hirsch sticks the dagger in Tumah's worldview: "To maintain that it [the establishment of the brit, the covenant] refers to Avraham's physical descendants [Met and Shoshnana] is difficult, for they are mentioned only in verse 6." -----And what do we read in verse 6?

    But I will [also] make you, too, exceedingly fruitful; I will even make you into nations, and kings will descend from you.

    Hirsch translation of Genesis 17:6.​

    Do you know what "too" means? ----God is going to make Abraham fruitful "too." ----God has just said that he will make him the progenitor of the "father of nations," who, the "father of nations" is the firstborn of creation, the reish, in the house, that is the original covenant. -----God is going to make Abram the "house of the covenant" where king messiah, the father of the multitude of nations, will be found. ----- Rabbi Hirsch is patently clear that Ab-R-aham is not the father of the multitude of nations, but the "house" where king messiah will be found. He now points out that Abraham will himself be fruitful too. He will birth his own multitude, from whom kings will be born. But his natural descendants are not the offspring of king messiah. They are Abraham's natural progeny. They have completely nothing to do with the offspring of king messiah, who are the "multitude of nations" who now go by the phrase, the multitudinous assembly, or ecclesia "the Church."



    John
     
  4. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    Abraham means "father of the peoples"/nations/Gentiles. The covenant is circumcision of the flesh, as a symbol of circumcision of the heart, whereas the "house of Judah" and the "house of Israel" will be circumcised of heart, and "I will put My law within them". This is done by God giving Israel a "new heart and put a new spirit with you, and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh" (Ezekiel 36:26), "and you shall live on the land that I gave to your forefathers so you will be my people, and I will be your God" (Ezekiel 36:28)
     
  5. John D. Brey

    John D. Brey Well-Known Member

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    . . . As is pointed out in the last message I composed, Rabbi Hirsch show that the text doesn't really call Abraham the father of a multitude of nations. Where the Hebrew is more carefully exegeted, it says God will give נתן Abraham the preexisting covenant, which is to say God will "give" נתן to Abraham "the father of the multitude of nations": king messiah. . . It's actually king messiah who is the father of the multitude of nations. We know this since in the very next verse God says he will also make Abraham himself fruitful. Abraham will have his own multitude of offspring. They just won't be the offspring of king messiah. King messiah produces a multitude of goyim (gentile nations). Abraham produces just two nations, Israel and Islam.


    John
     
  6. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    I am not trying to be too pedantic, but I don't see the answer to your original question.
    "And what is the covenant?"

    Genesis 17 10This is My covenant, which you shall keep, between Me and you and your descendants after you: every male among you shall be circumcised. 11“And you shall be circumcised in the flesh of your foreskin, and it shall be the sign of the covenant between Me and you. 12“And every male among you who is eight days old shall be circumcised throughout your generations, a servant who is born in the house or who is bought with money from any foreigner, who is not of your descendants. 13“A servant who is born in your house or who is bought with your money shall surely be circumcised; thus shall My covenant be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant. 14“But an uncircumcised male who is not circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin, that person shall be cut off from his people; he has broken My covenant.”
     
  7. John D. Brey

    John D. Brey Well-Known Member

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    What do you make of the statement above (and the context around it)? Knowing your interpretation would make it easier for me to zero in on answering Rashi's question (in the thread seeder).


    John
     
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