And they will take up serpents... Snake Handling Churches

[Smoke]

A number of states (most notable Tennessee) have already banned snake handling due to documented deaths and some have restricted this practice to adults. There is obvious danger in handling poisonous snakes, and especially when handled or in proximity of striking distance by children is a recipe for disaster.

As far as I know, West Virginia is the only state where it's legal. For that reason, a lot of snake handler meetings in other states are held in private homes and not open to the public.

They are dead serious about it. They think that their faith will prevent them from being dying from a snake bight. Their founder died in the late fifties of a snake bight. It is yet another perfect example of the lunacy of religious faith.

Deaths do occur, but not as often as you'd expect. George Hensley did die of a snake bite, but only after 45 years of snake handling and hundreds of bites. (I wonder why he hadn't built up immunity by then.)

They don't worry much about the possibility of death. They figure if they die, it's God's will.

That's rather unfair. They are considered lunatics even by the vast majority of religious adherents, and I resent being lumped in with nutjobs because I have believe in something.

They are considered lunatics even by the vast majority of hillbillies. My cousin dated a snake handler for a while and even went to church with him, but I've never met one myself as far as I know.

But I'm not sure why their faith is any crazier than any other faith. They believe in God and his power. They believe in what they think is God's word. They see people get bit and live. Is that crazier than believing in the Resurrection, or in Muhammad's Night Journey?

You know what my first thought was?

Those poor snakes.

In Holy Ghost People there are a couple times when somebody actually tosses a snake across the room to somebody else. I was astonished, but I admit I wasn't thinking of the snakes.

 

[Breathe]

They are considered lunatics even by the vast majority of hillbillies. My cousin dated a snake handler for a while and even went to church with him, but I've never met one myself as far as I know.

True, true.

But I'm not sure why their faith is any crazier than any other faith. They believe in God and his power. They believe in what they think is God's word. They see people get bit and live. Is that crazier than believing in the Resurrection, or in Muhammad's Night Journey?

The harder you [generic you] believe in something, the easier it is that when something knocks it, it [the faith] will shatter.

In my view, to hold such a literalistic interpretation of the Bible (even when a few verses later it says God punished people with snakes because they tested him) is asking for trouble. They are going by the word, not the spirit. It's even acknowledged that Jesus spoke in parables by Christians, so how can they take such verses as literal references to snakes, and not wicked people?

Or do I expect too much of them?

I would say no, believing that snakes won't harm you because God will stop them is not crazier than the resurrection or night journey, though I believe in none of these things personally.

 

[MSizer]

What do you define as "moderate"? "?

I don't think it exists, but a person who both believes that evolution occurs and that god is causing it, or that jesus walked on water would probably be a self-proclaimed moderate.

There are all colors and flavors of faith and religion in this world. Some have absolutely no issues with science and physical reality whatsoever."?

That is true of religion, but not of faith.

Some beliefs people hold affect no one outside of themselves. "?

Absolutely false. 14 teenage girls were burned alive in a hotel fire in mecca because the religious police refulsed to allow the male rescue attendents into the building, since it is against god's command for men to see unvieled women who are not their wives. If you believed that farmed eggs were the greatest source of congenital abnormalities, would you care about the loss of revenue to egg farmers in your choice to avoid eggs during pregnancy? Belief matters.

If a faith can give a person peace and balance then how can that possibly be any kind of a bad effect on humanity? "?

See above. I can give countless other examples.

And what do you mean by "water down"?

An Indian who practices biology for his pharmeceutical employer during the day and thanks brama for it during the evening.

 

[Draka]

I don't think it exists, but a person who both believes that evolution occurs and that god is causing it, or that jesus walked on water would probably be a self-proclaimed moderate.

That's very narrow actually.

That is true of religion, but not of faith.

How do you figure?

Absolutely false. 14 teenage girls were burned alive in a hotel fire in mecca because the religious police refulsed to allow the male rescue attendents into the building, since it is against god's command for men to see unvieled women who are not their wives. If you believed that farmed eggs were the greatest source of congenital abnormalities, would you care about the loss of revenue to egg farmers in your choice to avoid eggs during pregnancy? Belief matters.

And what does that have to do with what I said? I said some beliefs people hold affect no one outside of themselves. That is quite true. If I believe that the spirit of my grandmother watches over me how does that affect anyone else? If I believe in Summerland how does that affect someone else? If I believe sitting outside under a tree in the Spring is a great way to center myself and meditate how does that affect anyone else? Now, how are any of these beliefs in some way detrimental to humanity?

See above. I can give countless other examples.

Just because you can find some atrocities done because of certain beliefs or in the name of certain religions does not mean that all beliefs or religions are somehow detrimental to society.

An Indian who practices biology for his pharmeceutical employer during the day and thanks brama for it during the evening.

How is that "water down"? Or do you just think that there is a certain specific fundamental way that every person should believe and if they don't, if they can be rational, then they are "watering down" their beliefs or religion because, to you, all religion is irrational?

 

[MSizer]

That's very narrow actually.

That's only one example among many many more.

And what does that have to do with what I said? I said some beliefs people hold affect no one outside of themselves. That is quite true. If I believe that the spirit of my grandmother watches over me how does that affect anyone else? If I believe in Summerland how does that affect someone else?

Your potential pursuit of it could be spent helping people deal with real problems.

If I believe sitting outside under a tree in the Spring is a great way to center myself and meditate how does that affect anyone else?

That's a rational belief, but it still affects other people and other sentient beings.

Now, how are any of these beliefs in some way detrimental to humanity?

You're putting words in my mouth. I didn't say, nor imply "detrimental". Furthermore, if they're not justifiable, then you become a potential risk to the wellbeing of others for holding them.

Just because you can find some atrocities done because of certain beliefs or in the name of certain religions does not mean that all beliefs or religions are somehow detrimental to society

I agree because you included the word "all". But faith always at best a potential detriment, and never promotes a high degree of wisdom of action.

How is that "water down"? Or do you just think that there is a certain specific fundamental way that every person should believe and if they don't, if they can be rational, then they are "watering down" their beliefs or religion because, to you, all religion is irrational?

No, you keep interchanging the words "religion" and faith, but they're not the same. Religion is a cultural practice, which is not irrational inherently, because we're hardwired to practice it. However, Faith is yes, %100 irrational by definition, and IMO, is never helpful. At best it's benign, but it always is accompanied by a looming potential for irrationality.

 

[Draka]

Your potential pursuit of it could be spent helping people deal with real problems.

I do not "pursue" Summerland. Why would I?

That's a rational belief, but it still affects other people and other sentient beings.

How? How am I intruding or affecting anyone by walking out into my yard and sitting under a tree? Better question yet, how is my BELIEF in sitting under a tree to meditate affecting anyone?

You're putting words in my mouth. I didn't say, nor imply "detrimental". Furthermore, if they're not justifiable, then you become a potential risk to the wellbeing of others for holding them.

I just don't see a risk in hope.

I agree because you included the word "all". But faith always at best a potential detriment, and never promotes a high degree of wisdom of action.

That's your erroneous opinion based on your own obvious bias against all things religious. It also shows your limited understanding and idea of "wisdom" as well.

No, you keep interchanging the words "religion" and faith, but they're not the same. Religion is a cultural practice, which is not irrational inherently, because we're hardwired to practice it. However, Faith is yes, %100 irrational by definition, and IMO, is never helpful. At best it's benign, but it always is accompanied by a looming potential for irrationality.

Well, for one, you're wrong about faith being, by definition, "irrational". For two, your opinion that it is never helpful is just that...your opinion. Doesn't make you right in any way.

 

[Breathe]

You're putting words in my mouth. I didn't say, nor imply "detrimental". <<snip>>
I agree because you included the word "all". But faith always at best a potential detriment, and never promotes a high degree of wisdom of action.

Sorry. Had to.

 

[linwood]

LOL? :sarcastic

He has no faith.

That`s a Boa.
It`s not aggressive or venomous.

Edit:

This could be a reticulated python ..still harmless.

Edit,Edit:

The more I look at it the more this pic seems photoshopped.

It has a pit vipers head but a reticulated pythons body.
Weird.

 

[linwood]

Snake handlers are nuts, but they fascinate me. You can't say they don't take their Bible seriously. I've never been to one of their services, but I'd love to go -- as long as I can get a spot near the door.

[youtube]wK0SWvu07Y0[/youtube]
YouTube - Jolo, WV Homecoming 2008

Actually none of these people have any faith.
The snake/snakes they are passing around in this video are Ball/Royal pythons.

Possibly the most passive and friendly non-venomous snake you can own.

They`re *******, I`ve handled more dangerous reptiles and I have 0 faith in Christ.

 

[MSizer]

Sorry. Had to.

That was intentional. Try reading it again.

 

[Breathe]

That was intentional.

I'm aware of that.

Try reading it again.

I don't need to. Kindly keep your suggestions to yourself.

 

[Smoke]

Actually none of these people have any faith.
The snake/snakes they are passing around in this video are Ball/Royal pythons.

I don't know anything about snakes. It could be a black snake or a garter snake and I ain't picking it up.

What about this one?

[youtube]EvFCI2bsajM[/youtube]
YouTube - See To Believe: Snake Worship