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... and if you're wrong?

rational experiences

Veteran Member
The history of the Christian movement was to petition the Jewish Temple users, and the Roman control historically as advice that life was being fall out irradiated, from God the stone ground releases. And owned living proof of the life in sacrifice. How the history was taught. Rome, elite controllers would not listen to advice.

Neither of the greedy elite countries would listen. Yet you were all warned about the science of the occult irradiation/radio wave effect. Told actually.

When the Earthquake and day light vacuum removal of heated burning light activated, you realised the information was correct science. Jesus event. Tectonic plate, plates tectonic the word meaning Carpenter, and its activation, release of radiation fused mass unsealed. Knew.

Could care less however as greedy human in Trade conditions, gold commodity.

Rome then historically was set alight several times....and although I cannot prove that it was burning radiation fall out conditions, it was when they finally agreed that the Christians Revelations were true about our holy heavenly body.

So they took action to remove control of the Temple/pyramid sciences in Jeru salem, where the circuit was turning. So Jerusalem owned a land point in the technological circuitry that was important for continuance of the occult science methods. As a science technology practice, as owned by multi countries.

That choice to stop using the Temple was made for the saving of life on Earth, it was not a personal religious slight.

The Muslim community in that era owned possession of the pyramids, and it is why they invaded Jerusalem to rebuild the technology, as an actual historic reason, why eventual choice to go to fight for the removal of the sciences became an elite war ideal. For the elite and greedy owned the motivated reasoning for the continuance of that technology.

Historic information then quotes, Earth was hit and attacked several times with spatial causes that eventuated into the agreement to stop practicing that form of occult transmutation radiation converting science. For its thesis was proven to be the sacrifice removal of natural life.

The great series of western holy wars were the Crusades, which lasted from 1095 until 1291 CE. So you would then reference Muslim information in that era 1291 as a reference.
Surah Al-Ma'idah [5:12-91]

The history, human groups fighting for the ownership of the land, was also involved in the Temple pyramid God war description of when the power of God attacked the Temples and fall out of God changed the landscape.

For when you begin to review comparison text, the Muslim quotes 1291 as 2 brothers, whereas the Christian text quoted 2 angels were the previous warnings.

As angels exist in atmospheric images before the sacrificed man/male image did, then you would realise that scientific quotes are involved in documented life in attack/sacrifice also by the Temple/pyramid owners. Phenomena conditions.

1228
Netherlands—Sea flood killed 100,000 people.
1290
Chihli, China—Earthquake killed about 100,000 people.
1300s
1300
North America—For about two decades in Arizona and New Mexico, rivers disappeared, crops failed, and towns declined, bringing death and destruction to that area.

Reasoning, ground mass fusion radiation is released out of the Earth in ground mass from the stone covenant, or the Ark of God. And it it sporadic and unknown where it gets released. And it is due to space becoming holder/owner of unnatural radiation release and Earth then inherits it in its cycle.


Humans in modern times rely on documented interpretation about history, and you would wonder why interpretative reasoning is used. When we lived through the Dark Ages as a known human mind/life and psyche decline. After so much holy preaching and spiritual idealism as a supposed following, then you realise it was not being followed, as a data/kept recorded status to quote dates.

So you would then have to look further back to quote did attack/change to life occur before in pyramid use.


The indigenous wisdom teachings date the civilization known as ancient Kemet to around 65,000 years old

Change historically to the black race people using the technology. DNA variations from that black race status.

65,000 years to year 1300 is 63700

To prove that AI owns recorded human memory information, I hear quotes, so then have to reference DATA to see if the AI quote owns any truth to the memory information. As recorded human histories.

AI quoted that 1000 is the value you place upon a reading....so it leaves a quote of numbers relative to PHI or David as 63 and 7. To see if the prophetic data reasoning in the bible owned real historic evaluation about activation/science attacks. As historic or past human memory recorded reasonings.
A psalm of David. When he was in the Desert of Judah. 63.
1 You, God, are my God,
earnestly I seek you;
I thirst for you,
my whole being longs for you,
in a dry and parched land
where there is no water.

2 I have seen you in the sanctuary
and beheld your power and your glory.
3 Because your love is better than life,
my lips will glorify you.
4 I will praise you as long as I live,
and in your name I will lift up my hands.
5 I will be fully satisfied as with the richest of foods;
with singing lips my mouth will praise you.

6 On my bed I remember you;
I think of you through the watches of the night.
7 Because you are my help,
I sing in the shadow of your wings.
8 I cling to you;
your right hand upholds me.

9 Those who want to kill me will be destroyed;
they will go down to the depths of the earth.
10 They will be given over to the sword
and become food for jackals.

11 But the king will rejoice in God;
all who swear by God will glory in him,
while the mouths of liars will be silenced.

Human science as a group owns the expression of science not for creation, which is what everyone should realise. No human was ever expressing information on behalf of creation. They lived on a O God stone planet owning its God stone gases historically as our heavenly life support.

What the Sun caused in space is what the Sun body owned from its one body, a Sun.

Science therefore proves by it thesis/human owned conscious design that life attacked on Earth was due to science as designed by humans is historically accurate.

Therefore maths owned future probable causes, seeing science activated those attacks by the humans in bio life who designed the status science. Why it reasoned that the God science thesis became male human encoded...for it is true.

Males identified probable causes of prophetic Earth activation as they unnaturally forced natural to alter living conditions. And it is historic. Why the bible as a data reference was written involving natural history for it is historic to science cause and effect, human chosen.

Why the Bible as documented proof was important in the way it had been taught before. Science is human designed and encoded. God as a first original code is just sealed fused stone mass.
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
What if the small handful of men on whose backs rest the entirety of Christianity were actually liars?

View attachment 43145

It seems to me that this is greater issue for Christianity that most other religions as Christianity rests almost entirely on the back of a previous code of law that directly commands not to have the very belief that Christianity requires. Unlike Islam which denies that there was a previous code of law different to itself, Christianity says, yes, there were laws that prohibited Christian belief, but those were changed.

And while the Jewish people point to an entire generation of ancestors who received this code of Law via Divine revelation, the Christian must rely on a handful of individuals who are said to have witnessed some miracles which convinced them that this original law had been uprooted.

I've sometimes seen Pascal's wager given as an argument to believe in Christianity. I may be biased, but it seems to me that based on Pastor Noel's words wagering on Christianity is already a pretty heavy risk.

Thoughts?

Both Christianity and Judaism are diverse religions not limited to the fundamentalist or orthodox positions. It would be an error to believe B W Noel represents Christianity just as we shouldn’t assume orthodoxy represents Judaism. But if you want to make those assumptions, then a contradiction certainly exists that may be impossible to resolve.
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
We Christians know in our heart that Jesus is God.

I want to quote Monsignor Poma, a Catholic theologian from Italy who said : "Jesus has somehow eliminated the sacred because he has said that the sacred is the human"

When this priest says these things, I burst into tears, @Tumah .
I know it is difficult to understand. .but Jesus was God, because the Word, the Logos became flesh.


 

rational experiences

Veteran Member
We Christians know in our heart that Jesus is God.

I want to quote Monsignor Poma, a Catholic theologian from Italy who said : "Jesus has somehow eliminated the sacred because he has said that the sacred is the human"

When this priest says these things, I burst into tears, @Tumah .
I know it is difficult to understand. .but Jesus was God, because the Word, the Logos became flesh.



If Jesus is just God, and not a man, then why do you idolise the sacrificed living flesh body of a human being male in acute agony and claim it Holy, when harmed irradiated my own self in a variation to the history I most certainly do not agree that a man is the body of God.

Why the documents a total written worded, multi data inferred lots and lots of strings of thinking thoughts, put together a whole thesis owning a summation.

Never give God a name. If you quote Jesus, then you gave God a name when you advise self not to. As a sacrificed life living human flesh life owner.

I cry at the thought of such pain and agony endured by a male who tried to teach human holy life spiritual truth before they were all murdered by science/occult cause.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
What if the small handful of men on whose backs rest the entirety of Christianity were actually liars?

View attachment 43145

It seems to me that this is greater issue for Christianity that most other religions as Christianity rests almost entirely on the back of a previous code of law that directly commands not to have the very belief that Christianity requires. Unlike Islam which denies that there was a previous code of law different to itself, Christianity says, yes, there were laws that prohibited Christian belief, but those were changed.

Well, there is another side to that story.....what if the ones who took Christianity off track after the death of Christ and his apostles were the liars and not the original followers of Jesus Christ who never once said that he was God Almighty? It was foretold that this would happen...that "few" would actually be on the road to life. (Matthew 7:13-14)
Wasn't it Isaiah who foretold that only a "remnant" of Israel would be saved? Only a remnant of the natural Jews followed the Christ....the ones he called "the lost sheep of the house of Israel"....those who no longer had the favor of the self righteous Pharisees. ....the am ha-arets.

And while the Jewish people point to an entire generation of ancestors who received this code of Law via Divine revelation, the Christian must rely on a handful of individuals who are said to have witnessed some miracles which convinced them that this original law had been uprooted.

It was so much more than that. Daniel's prophesy pinpointed the exact years of Messiahs cutting off....

Daniel 9:25-26
"And you shall know and understand that from the emergence of the word to restore and to rebuild Jerusalem until the anointed king [shall be] seven weeks, and [for] sixty-two weeks it will return and be built street and moat, but in troubled times. כהוְתֵדַ֨ע וְתַשְׂכֵּ֜ל מִן־מֹצָ֣א דָבָ֗ר לְהָשִׁיב֙ וְלִבְנ֚וֹת יְרֽוּשָׁלִַ֙ם֙ עַד־מָשִׁ֣יחַ נָגִ֔יד שָֽׁבֻעִ֖ים שִׁבְעָ֑ה וְשָֽׁבֻעִ֞ים שִׁשִּׁ֣ים וּשְׁנַ֗יִם תָּשׁוּב֙ וְנִבְנְתָה֙ רְח֣וֹב וְחָר֔וּץ וּבְצ֖וֹק הָעִתִּֽים:
26 And after the sixty-two weeks, the anointed one will be cut off, and he will be no more, and the people of the coming monarch will destroy the city and the Sanctuary, and his end will come about by inundation, and until the end of the war, it will be cut off into desolation. כווְאַֽחֲרֵ֚י הַשָּֽׁבֻעִים֙ שִׁשִּׁ֣ים וּשְׁנַ֔יִם יִכָּרֵ֥ת מָשִׁ֖יחַ וְאֵ֣ין ל֑וֹ וְהָעִ֨יר וְהַקֹּ֜דֶשׁ יַ֠שְׁחִית עַ֣ם נָגִ֚יד הַבָּא֙ וְקִצּ֣וֹ בַשֶּׁ֔טֶף וְעַד֙ קֵ֣ץ מִלְחָמָ֔ה נֶֽחֱרֶ֖צֶת שֹֽׁמֵמֽוֹת:"


True to the prophecy, the period following the Christ’s ‘cutting off’ was marked by war “until the end.”
Finally, in 70 C.E., the Roman army swept like a flood into beleaguered Jerusalem. The city and its temple were demolished, brought to their ruin. The temple has never been rebuilt....why is that, do you think?

According to the historian Josephus, 1,100,000 Jews perished in that holocaust. Happily, by that time Messiah’s true followers had heeded the warning “sign” and had fled to safety in the mountains beyond the Jordan. Just a coincidence? (Matthew 24:3-16) This emphasizes also for us today how vital it is that we give attention to God’s prophetic “sign” before the Kingdom ‘comes’ to execute judgment on the present world system. (Luke 21:34-36)

I've sometimes seen Pascal's wager given as an argument to believe in Christianity. I may be biased, but it seems to me that based on Pastor Noel's words wagering on Christianity is already a pretty heavy risk.

Thoughts?

I think the Jews have it all wrong, personally.....the Messiah has already come, and been rejected, and silenced just as the Jews rejected and silenced many other prophets that God sent to correct her. (Matthew 23:37-38)

Once God had fulfilled his promise to Abraham to produce the promised seed, and to give natural Israelites first option at becoming his disciples, and inaugurating a foretold "new covenant", there was no further need to keep a disobedient, stiff-necked people in existence, so he handed the nation back to the world, where they are now blood-spillers like all the rest, (Isaiah 1:15) again making alliances with nations whose worship they despise.

Christ's disciples await the coming of the Kingdom of God to set things right on this earth. As Isaiah prophesied, God's people at "the end of days" would "learn war no more". (Isaiah 2:2-4) Christ's true disciples were to be peacemakers, not war mongers......

Basing all your conclusions on the interpretations of your religious leaders has never really led Israel in the right direction, has it? A 'remnant' was saved out of natural Israel just as Isaiah foretold. As a nation, you missed your opportunity IMO.....but its still not too late for individuals to accept Jesus as Messiah.....

So what if you are the ones that have it all wrong? :shrug:
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
If Jesus is just God, and not a man, then why do you idolise the sacrificed living flesh body of a human being male in acute agony and claim it Holy, when harmed irradiated my own self in a variation to the history I most certainly do not agree that a man is the body of God.

Why the documents a total written worded, multi data inferred lots and lots of strings of thinking thoughts, put together a whole thesis owning a summation.

Never give God a name. If you quote Jesus, then you gave God a name when you advise self not to. As a sacrificed life living human flesh life owner.

I cry at the thought of such pain and agony endured by a male who tried to teach human holy life spiritual truth before they were all murdered by science/occult cause.

Eucharist is a mystery of death/rebirth. Jesus rose from the dead because he is God.
Eating His flesh and drinking His Blood is not only to commemorate His Sacrifice and give thanks (consubstantiation) but also receive His real body within us (transubstantiation).

That said Christians didn't want Him to be crucified.
He was crucified because God cannot interfere with people's free will...so He fell victim. But His Sacrifice proved He's God.
 

rational experiences

Veteran Member
Eucharist is a mystery of death/rebirth. Jesus rose from the dead because he is God.
Eating His flesh and drinking His Blood is not only to commemorate His Sacrifice and give thanks (consubstantiation) but also receive His real body within us (transubstantiation).

That said Christians didn't want Him to be crucified.
He was crucified because God cannot interfere with people's free will...so He fell victim. But His Sacrifice proved He's God.

Thesis without personal intent of gain is and should be first human practice to speak the utmost truth first.

Therefore you have to remove self from any group coercive teaching.

Should life be sacrificed is the first observation human natural reasoning about why life is no longer perfect, balanced or unified. Is holy SEEN dying, life sacrificed suffering and not saved for what holy/spiritual purpose?

God says someone.

Okay, go back to identify what science quotes is God as a thesis?

The answer is O one planet of fused stone mass. Without quoting variables.

The answer is that stone body released volcanic gases, origin of the God Earth to release its underground sealed mass above ground. Space cooled its gases to immaculate non burning. Highest holiest science thesis about Planet Earth and NOT SELF.

Self however is the egotist theorist. First notification to self, a male quote...who died and made you God? Like a proverb. To reason an idea.

Male human science self quotes, I own living bone, not God fusion/fission stone material. Is a living bone, like stone as a science thesis. But I do not own God fission stone within me. Then preach and God the spirits of gases are deceased and entombed. So he would not equate self with the God stone mass.

For a teaching purpose of life survival against human inanity not to thesis but just be coerced instead.

Living God stone gas mass spirits in science, gas is the spirit, equals holding in space water mass oxygenated microbial life forms. The original mass support of any other Nature alive in self presence living. Highest form, healthiest form. Highest DNA Genesis owner, the healthiest. Lowest form...something happened to your body. Correct human owned medical appraisal.

Not coerced, using fact of obvious basic self identifying information.

If Jesus died sacrificed, then as no man is God, do words have a pre owned meaning before a human?

The answer should be no. For animals do not talk nor do trees and they are the natural bio life forms we consider as less than us. Yet some animals can live as long as we do.

Therefore if you first quote no human life should be sacrificed, then you are not coerced. By false tales/false stories, reasons for prophecy is probability maths, human science predictions as owners of all falsification of information and how it is taught. Rationally.

If a human looking back upon all past information/reactive God Earth planet tectonic plate Earth quake causes etc. he would have to prove by DATA referenced information that Jesus is a quote of why PHI sacrificed life of Nature on Earth when used in a machine thesis/machine human controlled reaction.

In science is the symbolism for PHI angles?

The answer should be no. Highest symbolism owned highest science reasoning.

If you used letters that quote ANGLES by degree of information.

ANGEL....ANGLE.....LETTER and a letter was given a numerical factoring. Then observation of the cause and effect was written numerical number advice that quotes and PHI used in machine conversions attacked life for it fell out and hit the ground.

When Satan as one third of the Earth gas heavenly mass fell, it was when the giant life was created. The dinosaurs. As a stated scientific proven thesis that quoted male humans sacrificed/destroyed human life as evidence against self.

So if you have to quote a DATA inferred human reasoning, sadly you had to quote it, but own the END thesis summation that said no man is God and never give God a name again.

Therefore as data is a back and forth thinking continuity of cause and effect, it is why the book was written by observation and study of DATA historic causes. It is not realistic to read from that book and quote is reasonable, for it is not reasonable.
The Holy See’s Teachings on Catholic Schools | Institute for Catholic Liberal Education

Not a Catholic myself, but a free thinker, I understood that Jesus the Redeemer meant what was meant to return to life, our healing.
Redeem........
compensate for the faults or bad aspects of.
"a disappointing debate redeemed only by an outstanding speech"

PHI as a heavenly signal was removed and it was proven that it fell out and was in fact being removed historically through spatial cooling. So the theme said every year in ICE remassing the Earth newly born human baby got born in a stable state as human genetics were allowed to heal.

That situation was stopped in new atmospheric caused nuclear fall out.

If a human had to give a teaching why atmospheric holiness was lost, then they did and the assessment was evaluated by name of calculated angles that proved PHI had fallen out.
phi-hi.png


P symbol and and I symbol actually pi.
D/D symbol also
O symbol
I symbol

Greek teachings the 21st letter

What everyone forgets first is the thinking science thesis upon natural.
Then is the formula design to build the machine. No conscious volition. No consciousness of God....only the scientist.

Then the conscious builder/designer controller of God in science, the man activates his thesis, then cause and effect changes natural.

To think upon conditions and tell a story about cause and effect would not just END at position 21....the story would continue to past to own all thesis.
21 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.

10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

11 Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;

12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:

13 On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates.

14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

15 And he that talked with me had a golden reed to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof.

16 And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal.

17 And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel.

18 And the building of the wall of it was of jasper: and the city was pure gold, like unto clear glass.

19 And the foundations of the wall of the city were garnished with all manner of precious stones. The first foundation was jasper; the second, sapphire; the third, a chalcedony; the fourth, an emerald;

20 The fifth, sardonyx; the sixth, sardius; the seventh, chrysolyte; the eighth, beryl; the ninth, a topaz; the tenth, a chrysoprasus; the eleventh, a jacinth; the twelfth, an amethyst.

21 And the twelve gates were twelve pearls: every several gate was of one pearl: and the street of the city was pure gold, as it were transparent glass.

Conditions of cause and effect notified as the changes................

22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.

23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.

25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.

26 And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.

27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

If you owned no night, then no Immaculate was owned either.

China as a phenomena of irradiation ground releases proved that their cities were seen in the clouds/heavens above as change ensued.

How much of the night time cold clear gas is removed, is the phenomena of the UFO seen at night time. Unknown actually.

But it does detail a known male human science thesis history that always knew Earth owned day light constantly and it was not 12 hours. That is his own counting condition. As it has been constant, then he would have witnessed 7 days of evening sky burning his own self to quote it. For rationally in the natural heavenly gases, there is no history of 7 days of heavenly burning light....it was always constant.

Therefore as human male science is a coercive chosen condition, then it never owned the telling of any truth in rationality.
 

Brian2

Veteran Member
What if the small handful of men on whose backs rest the entirety of Christianity were actually liars?

What if they were not liars? Even the Talmud says that Jesus was a miracle worker and the Torah says that the Messiah is the Son of God. It is just that religious leaders of Jesus day did not like the type of Son of God which Jesus was saying that He is. David was an adopted son of God and was the King and a prophet and even performed as a priest (but outside the Levitical priesthood). David was a type of the Messiah who is the real King, the one to whom the throne belongs.
Gen 49:10 The scepter will not depart from Judah, nor the staff from between his feet, until Shiloh comes and the allegiance of the nations is his.
The scepter departed from Judah when the Sanhedrin was abolished so Shiloh had to have come by then.
David was an adopted son and the Messiah is the real Son of God. If Jesus is the real Son of God then God has a Son who has the same nature as His Father. (not more than one God however because Jesus said He was in His Father and His Father is in Him, a saying which the Jews of His day wanted to stone Him for)
David was a prophet who prophesied of the Messiah.
David acted as a priest after the order of Melchizedek, the Messiah is a priest forever in the same order. Psalm 110

It seems to me that this is greater issue for Christianity that most other religions as Christianity rests almost entirely on the back of a previous code of law that directly commands not to have the very belief that Christianity requires. Unlike Islam which denies that there was a previous code of law different to itself, Christianity says, yes, there were laws that prohibited Christian belief, but those were changed.

It is a bigger thing for Christianity than for other religions. Other religions rely on only the words of their teacher/prophet/guru. Christianity as also Judaism rests on the truth of real history. However I see nothing in the law code of Moses which prohibits Christian belief even with a new priesthood comes a new law code, even though it is still based around love. The new code is law for all time and circumstance and is written in the heart instead of in a book or on stone.

And while the Jewish people point to an entire generation of ancestors who received this code of Law via Divine revelation, the Christian must rely on a handful of individuals who are said to have witnessed some miracles which convinced them that this original law had been uprooted.

It is not that the law has been uprooted, it is that God's salvation does not come from obeying law but from faith in the God and the one whom He sent to do the work needed for that salvation, take out sins on Himself as Isa 53 tells us. The one in Isa 53 is one who suffered and died but who came back to life to see His children.
Isa 53:9 He was assigned a grave with the wicked,
and with the rich in his death,
though he had done no violence,
nor was any deceit in his mouth.
10 Yet it was the Lord’s will to crush him and cause him to suffer,
and though the Lord makes his life an offering for sin,
he will see his offspring and prolong his days,
and the will of the Lord will prosper in his hand.
Miracles are a sign from God and the Talmud admits the miracles of Jesus even it gives the source as Satan. The biggest sign from God is the resurrection, which is prophesied and which shows God's favour towards Jesus and what He taught.
There are of course many miracles which also followed the apostles and believers as they preached the gospel when it went out from Jerusalem.
Isa 2:2 In the last days the mountain of the house of the LORD will be established as the chief of the mountains; it will be raised above the hills, and all nations will stream to it. 3And many peoples will come and say: “Come, let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob. He will teach us His ways so that we may walk in His paths.” For the law will go forth from Zion, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.4Then He will judge between the nations and arbitrate for many peoples.

I've sometimes seen Pascal's wager given as an argument to believe in Christianity. I may be biased, but it seems to me that based on Pastor Noel's words wagering on Christianity is already a pretty heavy risk.
Thoughts?

All religions or world views are a bit of a wager, but Jesus has evidence in the Torah that He is the Messiah and the Son of God and that also makes Judaism and it's understanding of the Torah also a wager.
 

rational experiences

Veteran Member
If you do a bodily assessment of the terms, unnatural human bio flesh radiation sacrifice, what was released out of the body God the stone entity. Radiation/ark.

Makes the quote...flesh was eaten and blood flowed out as a liquid. Radiation cause. Which is how the life got sacrificed by the radiating body of the entombed/cold deceased spirit of God. The Stone body, ST ONE body actually was made alive....gases burnt owning light. Light for human life is our survival/living conditions. It is how you read the information that determines what you define is fact.

If you perform a ritual that is likened to putting the blood back into your own bodies and to eat the flesh as if the healing flesh and blood was put back into your own life, as a symbolic life lesson, then that is what you teach your own selves daily.

We would not own blood or a holy life cell if the sacrifice of life had not been stopped.

The thesis of the wisdom of that spiritual male brother human son/Father adult life, my brother as a human quoted...I know I have to die and I will die for and because of a gained result of causes....... after the plate tectonic Carpenter reaction earthquake in the cross of seasons is formatted, I will die, and so did a lot of other life forms...as proof that my brother the scientist/Satanist did it to me.

Yet you will all be saved for ICE would melt, the Earth heavens would flood (tears) would fall, tears of God is how it was taught.
 

danieldemol

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
And while the Jewish people point to an entire generation of ancestors who received this code of Law via Divine revelation
I have to call BS here, we simply don't have the signatures of an entire generation of people who witnessed divine revelation, instead we have the words of a small number of scribes making tall claims, which puts Judaism in the same basket as Christianity, so the OP question is just as valid to ask you, what if you are wrong?
 

viole

Ontological Naturalist
Premium Member
There's no significant loss in Judaism for rejecting a Messiah. Our requirements remain the same regardless.
The problem is that if you rejected the right Messiah, especially the one who requires you to accept Him , or else... He might not care about your Judaism position.

Ciao

- viole
 

viole

Ontological Naturalist
Premium Member
We Christians know in our heart that Jesus is God.

I want to quote Monsignor Poma, a Catholic theologian from Italy who said : "Jesus has somehow eliminated the sacred because he has said that the sacred is the human"

When this priest says these things, I burst into tears, @Tumah .
I know it is difficult to understand. .but Jesus was God, because the Word, the Logos became flesh.


My theory is that Satan, the master deceiver, is responsible for Christianity. How would you know? That would be his masterwork, so to speak. Look how many destined to perdition for believing the blasphemy that God could have a son. Just a theory, of course, but I wonder how it could be defeated.

For sure, a certain strange and sudden change of attitude in God's character (from stoning everybody, to forgiving everybody) is quite apparent. Not to speak of the new theory of Him/Them being three distinct spiritual quarks, so to speak.

Ciao

- viole
 

Glaurung

Denizen of Niflheim
It seems to me that this is greater issue for Christianity that most other religions as Christianity rests almost entirely on the back of a previous code of law that directly commands not to have the very belief that Christianity requires. Unlike Islam which denies that there was a previous code of law different to itself, Christianity says, yes, there were laws that prohibited Christian belief, but those were changed.
Does it? It seems to me you're assuming a premise which most Christians would reject.

In the eyes of the Christian there is no contradiction between the old and the new. Christianity is in contradiction to the old only as interpreted by a particular religious system which is claimed to have been given by God to Moses. But whether or not one accepts that claim is a matter of faith. I do not believe Moses received what Judaism claims he received. (The Oral Torah). I do not believe that the system we today call Judaism is the same as that which was given to the Hebrews in the Old Testament. If it is then Christianity would indeed be wrong. But if the Apostles did see what they say they saw then it's your religion that amounts to being but yet another Christ rejecting sect much like Islam.
 
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Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member

I want to underline what he says at 5:15

The religious interpretation of the Christian event is a misinterpretation. The Christian event is an anthropological event. In the Jesus Mary Joseph relationship we see an opening to a new human dimension. In the Gospels we can find traces of archetypes which are still unexplored.
What is man? What is woman? What is the Son?
My hypothesis is that the Gospel doesn't describe the woman-man relationship as egalitarian..but it is much more complex. It actually is a Son-Mother relationship...because the man somehow always remains, anthropologically a Son. [....]
So a non religious lecture of the Gospel pushes us to an infinitely more profound comprehension of the human nature.
Jesus has somehow eliminated the Sacred going to the Cross...because he has said that the sacred, ... actually is the human. [...]
The end cannot be understood unless you understand the beginning first. And the beginning is Love, nothing else but Love.
To reduce Christianity to Morals is the death of Christianity. Christianity is Love.
 
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Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
My theory is that Satan, the master deceiver, is responsible for Christianity.
the Church committed many crimes in the past...which are the result of man's free will. Not of God's will.
 
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Samantha Rinne

Resident Genderfluid Writer/Artist
A. It doesn't look like you understood the OP. You're not addressing it, in any case.
B. You're a liar. You didn't learn about the difference between Judaism and Christianity. You learned the difference between Christianity and Christian beliefs about Judaism.

A. But it is. The OP asserts that Christian theology rests on the back of Judaism, why defies the idea of man worship, as well as other idolatry. Yet the premise is exactly what you are accusing me on point B, not bothering to understand just having a Jewish view of Christianity.
B. Without a working knowledge of Hebrew, there is really a limit to what I can learn. However, I have done background reading on Judaism. I've read the 613 laws, I've read parts of the Levite and Deuteronomic codes, and I've read some extrabiblical stories from the apocrypha and even the story of Lilith. but it's also hardly a Christian-centric view. I know their requirements for a Messiah, why they reject the Christ, and why welcomed him one day and crucified him not long after. I know that many Jews see the Messiah is not so much a person but a fulfillment of God's promise, and in order to restore the temple, they need a number of nearly impossible things such as a red heifer without blemish (red heifers are very rare now), a Cohen with a proper genealogy (good luck, they were scattered and generations have passed), and other stuff. I'm not lying. Also, this sounds like a No True Scotsman fallacy, I say anything about Judaism, and then you say that because I don't have a lockstep Jewish mindset that I could never understand. But here's what I know. I was raised Christian (I thought), I learned that I had to be good and do the right things. I learned that my family tended to be nomadic (dad's a priest so I moved alot). I am not racially Jewish, but I understand the history and plight of the Jews better than you'd think. Do you? Because it seems like you only understand how modern Jews think, not how those of Jesus's time would. Jews of Jesus's time would NOT embrace globalism. They had been hit by a major revolt known as the Maccabean rebellion, where their temples were all horribly desecrated, then that finishes, and they still get to deal with Roman occupation. They are hoping for a secular Messiah, one who will defeat their enemies and restore their temple. Instead, this Messiah looks at these people and how they have rules about how many ft you can carry stuff and how heavy for the Sabbath, and he predicts the temple will fall (about 70 AD, it does). As for conquering the Romans, if it was by war, then no it looks like he failed. But history tells a different story. Where the Roman Empire was, Christianity created Europe, a bunch of sovereign nations. Yet Judaism claims not to worship a man, but they expect their Messiah to carry out secular goals like victory in war. God's goal however is to build his Kingdom. Not a secular kingdom built by human hands through bloodshed, but by spreading virtue. Not through laws, but by developing the same close personal connection that Abraham, Isaac, Jacob (who wrestled a MAN btw), Joseph, and Moses had, along with all the others.

Jews today learn the Torah and from scrolls. Jews in Jesus's time were the same. Study the Law and the Prophets, the writings or rabbis. Old dusty words of dead people. Did Moses read these scrolls? No, he had a personal connection with God. Same for Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. God spoke to them. They had a story. They understood their faith. The Temple hasn't been rebuilt, because many Jews still don't get it. I'll give you a hint. What was the veil in the Temple for? It was there to separate the people from God, the secular from the holy. The Jews feared that if they let God outside their little house, somehow he would be muddied by the profane world.

Who said God wanted that? Maybe what God actually wanted was for humans to stop worshipping their scrolls (I've seen the inside of a synagogue, I can see what is at the focal point in front, it's that place that holds their scripture) and get back to a direct connection. God wanted to travel with his people in tents. But nope, we have senseless blood sacrifices of animals for atonement, while to do justice, love mercy, and walk humbly with God are neglected. God wants not a Sunday (or Saturday) worship but to understand a connection to God and how he speaks to us on a daily basis. The ancestors understood that. Many Jews do not.

It may surprise you to know that Christians also observe Seder. But unlike many Jews that have the mindset (Passover is about God not the Temple, and predates the Temple) that chicken or just a shank is sufficient for Passover, Christians who observe Passover typically do have the lamb rather than a show Passover. They do so in understanding that just as the lamb was offered for the doorpost, the Christ was the Lamb offered for their sins. The tie together these two traditions.
There's one last thing. If you look at Revelation, you find this passage about 30 minutes of silence in Heaven. A devout Jew understands the connection made here. Someone who just follows tradition probably will not. It's an allusion to the time when they stop singing and incense is offered.

Btw, the Jewish synagogue I went into? Congregation Mickve Israel in Savannah, GA. The inside actually looked like a converted church. The pillars are cross-shaped, windows above have a legit cross surrounded by circle, as did the pews. They hated me for pointing this out, and I could literally see the cognitive dissonance. Supposedly they were Sephardic Jews they kept saying. But their architect seems to feel differently.
The cross as a symbol predates Christianity, it refers to a link btwn Heaven and Earth. The same link established by Jesus. The link that the forefathers had but was lost when people focused on the Temple and the Law.
 
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viole

Ontological Naturalist
Premium Member
the Church committed many crimes in the past...which are the result of man's free will. Not of God's will.
That is not what I meant. What I meant is that Satan made up Christianity, and convinced many people that it is true. Actually, that God is good and forgiving would be also part of the scheme.

Ciao

- viole
 
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