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Featured ... and if you're wrong?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Tumah, Sep 24, 2020.

  1. Riders

    Riders Well-Known Member

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    If Christians are right that Jesus is the same as God then everytime we non Jesus believers worship God we are also worshipping Jesus.So why should Christians be so zealous to convert us to christianity.?

    Jesus is just ano
    ther name or God, if I call on God and believe in God,that should be the only requirement Christians have for salvation.When the rich man asked Jesus how to be saved he went over the 10 commandments. To me if you live by that then your living for God. If you worship Jesus IMO its replacing God with Jesus. It's idolatry but still Jesus is another term for God.
     
  2. Riders

    Riders Well-Known Member

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    Jesus is in the same boat with Alah and Moses and Hare Krishna
     
  3. oldbadger

    oldbadger Skanky Old Mongrel!

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    And all the best to you. :)
    Freedoms? I always knew that I would be subjected to gravity. Freedom is all about our inner selves, maybe?

    And thank you for the congrats..... I didn't notice until you told me. :)
     
  4. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    In what way is Jesus "in the same boat ...Moses" ?
     
  5. Riders

    Riders Well-Known Member

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    Both men both prophets of God.
     
  6. Samantha Rinne

    Samantha Rinne Resident Genderfluid Writer/Artist

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    The Christian writings explain this distinction.

    It describes the Law as a curse. In other words, as long as you try to measure up to God's standard, you will always always fail, and the harder you try, the more strongly (see also Pharisees) you distance yourself from God. God believes this about us.



    This goes for atheists too. They claim they do not live under the Law. Oh? Then why do half of them obsess over whether they are recycling enough? Why do they worry about whether they are racist, sexist, xenophobic, or homophobic (a majority of atheists appear to be liberals, but I doubt it's all of them)? Why do they virtue signal? It's because they too are condemned under the Law.

    The only way out of the Law is Grace. To love others as yourself, and accept love you don't necessarily deserve.

    Jesus, the Holy Spirit, and the Creator are all God. And no, it's not important to believe in the Trinity either as far as I know, but the Law doesn't work. A personal relationship with God and to have Grace. This is what is needed.



    We fail to live up to the Law to make us understand we need God (Jesus).
     
  7. Milton Platt

    Milton Platt Well-Known Member

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    Pascal's wager is an assumption that you can fool a god. It is also an assumption that you not only picked the correct god, but picked the correct version of the religion. It also assumes you lose nothing by believing a potential lie and living yur life accordingly. It also assumes you gain nothing by not believing.
     
  8. Riders

    Riders Well-Known Member

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  9. Riders

    Riders Well-Known Member

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    Sorry my computer isn't responding to Samanthas reply so I am responding to Samantha's reply.Who are you to judge the live of Atheists and if they are living by the law? There are many happy atheists happy in their walk.

    Sense you say everyone outside of he Christian church is living legalistically by the law I have a news flash for you. There are many Christian churches including pentecostals Nondenoms and Baptists who still go by the old timey dress codes which is a part of the law and are very legalistic in their lives even though they accepted forgiveness from Christ.

    Many like the Seventh Day adventist accept forgiveness from Jesus and still live by the old law for their diet nd the Sabbath. Many combination Jewish Christian churches go by the law too.Theres a lot of legalistic Christian churches who live by the old testament.
     
  10. Riders

    Riders Well-Known Member

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    In reality there are a lot of drug addicts who spend one hundred percent of their time being high and stealing and prostituting to get drugs, they aren't in church, are they living by the law too? There are plenty of non Christians who don't live by the law.
     
  11. BilliardsBall

    BilliardsBall Veteran Member

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    Thank you for sharing, but that is not a refutation from logic, scripture, the original Hebrew meanings, etc.

    There are only a few people on this forum who believe your mythmaking about obvious prophecies of King Messiah Jesus. However, I'm delighted to be patient in helping you learn more, to upgrade your life.
     
  12. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
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    @Tumah, I have now read all 4 Gospels and I have several points regarding this discussion. Please note, I'm typing from my phone, so, please forgive the lack of quotes from previous posts in the thread.

    @viole and @oldbadger , you both were asking {paraphrasing} "How would a person differentiate between G-d and Satan in the story told in the Christian Gospels?"

    Well, the Gospels are an example of what a Jewish person shouldn't do. The best examples are when they encourage a person to violate the 10 commandments. In John chapter 2 (and elsewhere) the reader is told to worship Father and Son. This violates the commandment prohibiting worship of Other Gods. Also in Mark chapter 3, the reader is encouraged to dishonor their birth parents. This is a violation of the commandment to honor them. After having read all four Gospels, and it is clear to me that if the story is true, it describes a plot to lead people astray.

    @KenS and @Eyes to See , you both were discussing a "lack of belief" as the problem inherent in Jewish people past and present. The claim was {paraphrasing}: "The Jewish nation saw the plagues and the miracles in the desert in the exodus story, but still did not believe or have faith... they're a very stubborn people".

    My friends, you have this completely backwards. If you look at Deuteronomy chapter 32, you'll see that the problem of the Jewish people who sinned in the desert was not lack of belief, it was too much belief. Moses was rebuking them for following other/strange gods. This rebuke is repeated over and over in the later scriptures. This is the opposite of a lack of belief. A healthy dose of skepticism would have prevented people from worshipping a golden calf or any other idol. Worshipping an idol is the result of unhealthy faith, too much belief. Not too little.

    @Estro Felino, Viole gave an example of unconditional mercy for immigrants into a country, and if I understood, you claimed this was equivalent to what was being offered to readers in the Christian Gospels. I respectfully disagree.

    What I see in the Gospels is someone offering salvation and absolution on condition that their prayers get rerouted through a third party. It's not unconditional at all. If it were, everyone would be saved not just those who become disciples.

    Please consider how it would feel if you or someone you loved was sick when the NT was compiled. There's no modern medicine, and you are offered freedom from this disease on one condition: worship Father+Son, both. The temptation would be overwhelming for many. It's cruel to use death and disease or health and eternal life as a tool like this. That's why universal health care has been adopted by so many modern countries. The Gospels do not offer health unconditionally. It comes with a price.

    However, I do agree with what you and @PureX were saying that what people chose to do is more important than the doctrines in the text. And if Father+Son=God to you in your heart, then these two ideals together are common ground for developing and maintaining peace and understanding between Judaism and Believers in Christ.

    Sincerely,
     
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  13. Eyes to See

    Eyes to See Active Member

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    Why do people need an idol to represent God? Is it really because they have "too much" belief in him?
     
  14. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
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    It's not too much belief in him, it's too much belief in other gods, nature, etc... otherwise the idols are deemed powerless.

    Skepticism is the opposite of Faith. Skepticism is healthy. Too much faith is dangerous and can be corrupted and used to manipulate people.
     
  15. Eyes to See

    Eyes to See Active Member

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    I am going to use your logic here. Let us say a child has a loving, honest, faithful, and loyal father. And he never ever backed out on his word. He provided all that his son needed materially, physically, emotionally, spiritually. Everyone knew him as a man of his word. They would say, "If he gives you his word, it is as good as done."

    Now the son is in trouble, and the father says, don't worry son, I'll take care of it. Is it really a show of "too much" belief for that child to be skeptical of his father? And instead look to others who were devious, didn't keep their word, were liars, criminals, and took advantage of others?

    Is the child really a good son? Does he really show love to his father?

    I am wondering what happened to common sense.
     
  16. Terry Sampson

    Terry Sampson Well-Known Member

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    Which seems to me like an excellent reason to suggest that traditional Jews ignore non-Jewish proselytizers, stay out of the Christian Scriptures, keep calm, and continue doing whatever it is they think they're doing.
     
  17. Eyes to See

    Eyes to See Active Member

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    If the story was true, which it was, then how is it a plot? How does God plot exactly?
     
  18. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

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    I think most people need some kind of representational mechanism to help them comprehend the inexplicable mystery that "God" is to we humans.
     
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  19. Eyes to See

    Eyes to See Active Member

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    I agree that people of little or no faith have to have an idol to represent what they worship.

    That was the point of the question, to help the person to reason the thing out logically. Idols are not made because of "too much belief." It is because of a lack of faith.
     
  20. Estro Felino

    Estro Felino Believer in free will
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    Well...I am a Pelagian...a believer in a Christianity that saves all good people, regardless of their religion
    So...
    :)
     
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