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Featured and if there's a god...

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Unveiled Artist, Oct 21, 2016.

  1. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    Why call him Father? Why a he? (edit: Okay... Why call him Father and/or why refer to the Creator as a male or he. Hope that's better wording.)

    Yes, I know history and politics but think about it spiritually from the believers perspective (if you're not one) or explain to me logically (believers)...

    Women carry children, give birth to children, and have motherly instincts whether the father is there or not to take care of her young. I was raised single parent; so, I understand more intimately how a mother can take care of her children and the connection between mother and child.

    I have a good connection with my father but I'm getting to know him as an adult. Seeing things from a male perspective as a female is, well, hard. However, in regards to creation and giving birth to creation, I only see that as a mother's role. (If a male role was present then it should be two gods; that aside).

    What is behind calling god the father rather than mother?

    History and politics aside.

    This is for Muslims, non-trinitarian Christians, and Jews.
    Please don't attack my question
     
    #1 Unveiled Artist, Oct 21, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2016
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  2. Skwim

    Skwim Veteran Member

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    Could it be its use in the Bible perhaps?

    New Testament

    Matthew 6:26
    Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they?

    6:26 Ἐμβλέψατε εἰς τὰ πετεινὰ τοῦ οὐρανοῦ, ὅτι οὐ σπείρουσιν, οὐδὲ θερίζουσιν, οὐδὲ συνάγουσιν εἰς ἀποθήκας, καὶ ὁ πατὴρ ὑμῶν ὁ οὐράνιος τρέφει αὐτά οὐχ ὑμεῖς μᾶλλον διαφέρετε αὐτῶν

    πατήρ (patēr)
    generator or male ancestor

    A. either the nearest ancestor: father of the corporeal nature, natural fathers, both parents

    B. a more remote ancestor, the founder of a family or tribe, progenitor of a people, forefather: so Abraham is called, Jacob and David

    1 fathers i.e. ancestors, forefathers, founders of a nation

    C. one advanced in years, a senior
    Source: Strong's Concordance G3962 - patēr
    Old Testament

    Deuteronomy 32:6,
    "Is this the way you repay the LORD, O foolish and unwise people? Is he not your Father, your Creator, who made you and formed you?"

    הֲ־לַיְהוָה תִּגְמְלוּ־זֹאת עַם נָבָל וְלֹא חָכָם הֲלֹוא־הוּא
    אָבִיךָ קָּנֶךָ הוּא עָֽשְׂךָ וַֽיְכֹנְנֶֽךָ׃

    אָב
    'ab

      1. Father of an individual
        • of God as father of his people
        • head or founder of a household, group, family, or clan
        • Source: Strong's Concordance H1 'ab


    .
     
    #2 Skwim, Oct 21, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2016
  3. Jedster

    Jedster Well-Known Member

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    These religions were obviously created by men.
     
  4. Skwim

    Skwim Veteran Member

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    Are you implying that some religions aren't created by men?


    .
     
  5. sun rise

    sun rise "Let there be peace and love among all"
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    Carlita, you limited the answer to Western religions and thus harder to answer. But look at this: http://time.com/26318/gods-feminine-side-is-plain-to-see/ and you'll see that even in the Bible, it's easy to find God has feminine attributes.

    PS: I do love Kansas and recognized "all we are is dust in the wind"!
     
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  6. Jedster

    Jedster Well-Known Member

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    I was referring to the ones she mentioned.
     
  7. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    What is the logic behind it? In the Bible, Quran, Bahaulauh scripture, Torah, ummm my monotheistic brain only processes a few religions. Any religion that believes in one creator who is male.

    What is the logic behind the male concept than female? Is there a deeper connection to a male? Is there a spiritual significance in males that females don't have?

    Things like that.
     
  8. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    What is the logic behind it, though? Regardless of who created it. African religions, to most I know, the creator is female or have a female role. Many would call them creations of men.

    So, the history and politics aside, what is the logic behind a male creator?
     
  9. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    What religion do you practice?

    I'm more asking what is the logic behind it rather than where to find it in a said scripture, why the government was involved, or it was written (pretend ) in 244 b.c. that it did.

    I like thinking things out.
     
  10. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    But, yeah, Kanasas is tha bomb!
     
  11. interminable

    interminable منتظر

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    Look
    U don't need to think it must have something rational or logical

    It depends on sometimes a language that a society speaks or their culture

    For example a king conquers and expands his land at the expense of killing hundreds of his soldiers but after war all the glory and pride will be attributed to the king while he didn't do anything special
    This is just because his people or subordinates want to be polite towards the king and think it's a kind of modesty that we attribute all glory to him

    This is about culture
    In Arabic if there are 50 women and just one man u can use a verb that is used for men
    In this case seems u overlooked all those 50 women while it's just their language's grammar

    Another one is that God has no gender to talk about that but Arabic language considers God as a male but considers sun as a female when they wanna use pronouns while there is no difference between God and sun regarding their gender

    After all
    I've heard that most of the girls want to be boys but none of the boys want to be girls
    Men always have been the symbols of power , heroism ,reason ,efforts and ...
    So women always like to be men.
    Seems men are more perfect.
    Actually society looks toward women as a weak character

    And there is an another reason that it's better not to mention it

    I'm a Muslim so I don't believe that God is a father or.... Just wanted to say no need to ponder about it
     
  12. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    Do you refer to the creator by pronoun?

    If I did, it would be female. The reason and logic behind it is a female gives birth and natures creation. With or without the father, the mother still has a maternal instant and love for her creation. It doesn't matter this logic came from Africa or Hawaii. It doesn't matter what language it is written it. It doesn't matter the time period.

    The logic behind why I would think that is that mothers nuture an take care of their children.

    If you use the "he" pronoun in Arabic in your religion, why do you use that term (in English as a male)? If it's different in Arabic but it's still a pronoun, what does it represent when referring to the Creator?

    In Arabic are their pronouns? If they are, how are they similar and different from English in relations to calling the Creator a he as opposed to, say, spirit.

    Christianity aside.
     
  13. Skwim

    Skwim Veteran Member

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    Yes I know, but when you say things like "These religions were obviously created by men," it implies an exception there are those religions that are not created by men. Just like "these cookies are stale" implies that other cookies are not stale. If one means to say that all the cookies are stale there's no reason to single out some of cookies as "these cookies." One would simply same "The cookies are stale."


    .


    .
     
  14. Skwim

    Skwim Veteran Member

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    I assume the logic would be that in ancient times when it came to abilities and power, males had it all over females. Females were relegated to doing what males wanted, and not the other way around. So why impute such power to a divinity who was female? It would go against the logic that played out in real life. Now, why in some religions some deities were females would have to be answered by examining their particular beliefs.


    .
     
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  15. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    It would be interesting to wonder how the religions who believe the Creator is a female compares to that of the male Creator. Interesting observation. Thank you.
     
  16. Skwim

    Skwim Veteran Member

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    The only reason I can see for believing the creator is female is because it's the female who brings new life into the world. Again, another instance of imputing real life abilities to a deity.


    .
     
  17. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    True. It just makes more sense for it to be female than male.
     
  18. interminable

    interminable منتظر

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    Please contemplate about my previous post
    I told u
    God in Islam isn't matter or substance.
    He is unlimited.
    Noting is like God.
    So gender about God is completely senseless.
    So why in Quran, God refers to himself by male pronoun?????????
    ?????
    ??????
    ??
    It's clear because of Arabic language
     
  19. interminable

    interminable منتظر

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    I'm Iranian
    In Persian language for third party we use او for both male and female

    So we refer to God by this pronoun too.
    That's it
     
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  20. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    I do not know the Quran.
    I do not know Arabic.
    I do not know the Islam religion.
    I do not know the experience of the creator.

    "Nothing is like god" I don't know what you mean by that.

    On these notes, what you said is foreign.

    When you pray to god, do you use pronouns?
    If so, what is the reason for the pronouns if god is beyond gender?

    If not, please say so bluntly while remembering:
    Just because god is beyond gender doesn't mean we can't refer to him for preference (say in prayer). In the English Language, pronouns are necessary. I don't know about Arabic.

    If pronouns aren't necessary, to me, it would sound like...

    I believe in the Creator. The Creator helps me live. The Creator helps me understand life. The Creator, in the Quran, says we are the Creator's creation. The Creator talks through the prophets and tells us people what we need to do to follow the Creator.

    Compared to English

    I believe in the Creator. He helps me live. He helps me understand life. The Creator, in the Quran, says we are his creation. He talks through the prophets and tells us people what we need to do to follow the him.

    Do you use he to refer to the Creator in Arabic?
    If so, what is the purpose sense god is beyond gender?

    If you do not, how do you use pronouns (or are their pronouns) in Arabic?

    I read both your posts. They are foreign to me. We are from different parts of the globe on RF and not everyone knows what a creator or god is beyond concept.
     
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