And another.....Texas anti-mask movement leader dies of COVID-19

[Subduction Zone]

The technology.

The Spanish flu was worse due to the level of padt technology compared to today's technology..

It's a valid point to take into consideration how modern technology can effect the duration and lethality of viruses compared to the time when tech wasn't as developed.

The duration of this virus is largely due to people not following reasonable directives. Herd immunity is very expensive at times. But yes, modern technology has made the consequences of getting the virus much less deadly.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Just don't see facts as "coming from god." Have some flexibility as facts change. Don't depend on data so much that you become indoctrinated in it.

For me, data-only decisions does not work. I'm human and morals play in this not just data.

If experts admit not knowing (as they are human) what would you do?

I can only see a moral argument for taking the vaccine. I do not know of any valid ones against it.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I can only see a moral argument for taking the vaccine. I do not know of any valid ones against it.

If just talking about the vaccine only, just being able to make ones own healthcare choices

It works with anything medical related. Experts know this but why not others?

Why ignore personal healthcare decisions when experts promote making one's own healthcare decisions unless signing a waver to give up that right?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Just don't see facts as "coming from god." Have some flexibility as facts change. Don't depend on data so much that you become indoctrinated in it.

For me, data-only decisions does not work. I'm human and morals play in this not just data.

If experts admit not knowing (as they are human) what would you do?

I never claimed facts don't come from god, and I said evidence does change my mind.
If something isn't known it isn't known.
And making decisions based on data and facts is a large part how I function. I have Asperger's, and many of us are predisposed to think logically over emotionally. It doesn't mean we are androids without, but it does mean we are probably looking at facts before emotions.
And, yes, we can also use data to guide morality. Such as, we are social animals and we can point to many studies that demonstrate prosocial societies thrive for more people than those that lean on being ran on anti-social means. And we can even point to brain scans and overall health analysis to demonstrate such pro social means reduce suffering as well as improving quality of life. Thus our policies should strive towards this as it is who we are as a species.

 

[SkepticThinker]

I wouldn't say Covid is a hoax, I believe the virus can exist. But, in this case it is difficult to believe it is the real reason for the death of those people, because they die more easily than "normal" people with covid. (normally less than 3 out of 1000 who have the virus die for it, in the case of these rebels, it appears to be closer to 9/10, which is very suspicious).

You still haven't explained why doctors would want to intentionally kill their patients. My sister is a nurse and if she did that she'd be fired and sent to prison.

I don't think it's difficult at all to believe that those people died from COVID. Millions have died from it worldwide. We're in the middle of a global pandemic. I just read an alarming statistic that said that 1 in 500 Americans have died from COVID. Don't forget, there is an even more deadly strain going around now (delta), thanks to the virus being allowed to spread freely. Not to mention that the "rebels" aren't vaccinating themselves (which is the entire point of the thread), which would provide them much better protection against COVID. I'd say this is exactly what we should expect to see in a group of proudly unvaccinated individuals.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/interactive/2021/1-in-500-covid-deaths/

It seems to me that the covid is used for to make changes in the law so that rulers can have more power and people would lose their rights and freedom.

Like what? We have to wear masks? Ooooh, they've got us now!

And everyone who is against that, is a problem for the rulers and that would be the motive to kill them. And for that doctors could be useful tools.

People who are against vaccines that help their bodies fight a deadly virus that is circulating the globe are more likely to die than people who are vaccinated. Seems pretty obvious to me. Seems like the logical consequence of their actions.

Again, if my nurse sister intentionally killed her patients she'd be locked up in prison for murder. Do you have any evidence outside of this wild speculation that doctors are intentionally killing unvaccinated COVID patients?

 

[SkepticThinker]

When did I suddenly become Al Capone here?

I'm talking about the divide that's getting worse, not better. Givin the history of how people lost homes and businesses due to forced restrictions and shutdowns watching the hardships unfold over this obsessive craziness, people are simply not going to go through this a over again. They are going to fight back with prejudice.

It's just an observation of things that I think might happen when they get pushed too far.

It's not a personal threat or anything like that. Lol Breathe easy. ;0]

When are the unvaccinated anti-maskers going to realize that they are the ones holding us all back from re-opening and ending shutdowns, social distancing, etc.?

 

[metis]

I wouldn't say Covid is a hoax, I believe the virus can exist. But, in this case it is difficult to believe it is the real reason for the death of those people, because they die more easily than "normal" people with covid. (normally less than 3 out of 1000 who have the virus die for it, in the case of these rebels, it appears to be closer to 9/10, which is very suspicious).

It seems to me that the covid is used for to make changes in the law so that rulers can have more power and people would lose their rights and freedom. And everyone who is against that, is a problem for the rulers and that would be the motive to kill them. And for that doctors could be useful tools.

The above only "works" if you think the myriad of scientists studying this are idiots.

 

[Heyo]

The above only "works" if you think the myriad of scientists studying this are idiots.

... or into the conspiracy. Scientists. From all over the world.

 

[metis]

... or into the conspiracy. Scientists. From all over the world.

Is that what you believe?

As a retired scientist [anthropology], nothing could be further from the truth.

 

[Heyo]

Is that what you believe?

As a retired scientist [anthropology], nothing could be further from the truth.

The US managed to keep a whole lot of scientists silent in the Manhattan Project but there is no way to keep all scientists silent in a world wide conspiracy. I recently posted an article about the formula to calculate the chance of that happening (might have even been in this thread).

 

[Quagmire]

When are the unvaccinated anti-maskers going to realize that they are the ones holding us all back from re-opening and ending shutdowns, social distancing, etc.?

My guess is never.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I never claimed facts don't come from god, and I said evidence does change my mind.
If something isn't known it isn't known.
And making decisions based on data and facts is a large part how I function. I have Asperger's, and many of us are predisposed to think logically over emotionally. It doesn't mean we are androids without, but it does mean we are probably looking at facts before emotions.
And, yes, we can also use data to guide morality. Such as, we are social animals and we can point to many studies that demonstrate prosocial societies thrive for more people than those that lean on being ran on anti-social means. And we can even point to brain scans and overall health analysis to demonstrate such pro social means reduce suffering as well as improving quality of life. Thus our policies should strive towards this as it is who we are as a species.

I'm the same with my Epilepsy. Though gut feeling and emotions as its good points since we are human. It has some play with what we say and do. For example, I can mention a CDC fact and a vaxxed person can mention the same fact (say different wording). If someone was fact-based, they'd bypass the feelings they have for the individual and biases and focus on what's said. That's not the case here. Feelings do have something to do with our decisions. I don't see people getting upset over another person's healthcare choices to the point of arguing just because they disagree with the others' decisions. You can use facts to support your feelings but that doesn't mean feelings aren't involved.

 

[1213]

The above only "works" if you think the myriad of scientists studying this are idiots.

I don't think they are. But, as you may have noticed, any scientist who disagrees, is ridiculed, loses possibly his job or is otherwise discredited. Only few would dare to disagree and those who dare, will be called crazy conspiracy theorists or something like that and ignored. And this is how we will have only one accepted voice of "science".

 

[1213]

Where did you get that figure from? Citation needed. ...

It is based on this:
COVID Infection Fatality Rates by Sex and Age

By that the probability grows the older the person is. In over 80 it is about 1/10, according to that. I know now ten people who have been against covid tyranny publicly, if i remember correctly, 9 of them are dead. Even if they would be over 80, it would still be weird coincidence.

 

[metis]

I don't think they are. But, as you may have noticed, any scientist who disagrees, is ridiculed, loses possibly his job or is otherwise discredited. Only few would dare to disagree and those who dare, will be called crazy conspiracy theorists or something like that and ignored. And this is how we will have only one accepted voice of "science".

That is absolute unequivocal nonsense, and I can say that from the "inside". It is "fudging" a report that will get ya in a ton of trouble.

If you doubt I'm correct, check back at some issues of Scientific American, and see the exchanges made near the begging of each magazine. To make an honest mistake can be excused, but to make an intentional manipulation of the data will haunt ya for the rest of your career or will end it.

 

[Subduction Zone]

It is based on this:
COVID Infection Fatality Rates by Sex and Age

By that the probability grows the older the person is. In over 80 it is about 1/10, according to that. I know now ten people who have been against covid tyranny publicly, if i remember correctly, 9 of them are dead. Even if they would be over 80, it would still be weird coincidence.

Once again you should not use loaded terminology. I could just as easily call what you support "pro-Covid idiocy". Let's not play that game. You can do better than that. And you are misusing that data. You are assuming that the odds of catching the disease in the first place is a constant regardless of age. That does not appear to be the case since the fatality rate for those that caught the disease is closer to 2%. That can be shown with the raw data of how many cases there have been and how many people have died.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I'm the same with my Epilepsy. Though gut feeling and emotions as its good points since we are human. It has some play with what we say and do. For example, I can mention a CDC fact and a vaxxed person can mention the same fact (say different wording). If someone was fact-based, they'd bypass the feelings they have for the individual and biases and focus on what's said. That's not the case here. Feelings do have something to do with our decisions. I don't see people getting upset over another person's healthcare choices to the point of arguing just because they disagree with the others' decisions. You can use facts to support your feelings but that doesn't mean feelings aren't involved.

Again, the actions of the individual in regards to covid effects others. If someone wants to eat nothing but cheeseburgers every day, that is on the person who would be so destructive with person health. But, with covid, it is deadly, it is highly contagious, and it's overloaded hospitals and enacted critical care around the world.
Poor decisions on the individual are more akin to exposing non-smokers to second hand smoke. Except way worse.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Again, the actions of the individual in regards to covid effects others. If someone wants to eat nothing but cheeseburgers every day, that is on the person who would be so destructive with person health. But, with covid, it is deadly, it is highly contagious, and it's overloaded hospitals and enacted critical care around the world.

Poor decisions on the individual are more akin to exposing non-smokers to second hand smoke. Except way worse.

This doesn't address my post.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

This doesn't address my post.

Yeah, it does. It addresses why people are--and very rightfully so--angry with anti-vaxxers. And that is because the consequences of their actions are being beared by other people.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Yeah, it does. It addresses why people are--and very rightfully so--with anti-vaxxers. And that is because the consequences of their actions are being beared by other people.

I know this already.

My post had to do with feelings attached to our decision making.