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And another.....Texas anti-mask movement leader dies of COVID-19

Kangaroo Feathers

Yea, it is written in the Book of Cyril...
My point is, if there are two people who have Covid, it seems of those the one who has been against the Covid Tyranny publicly dies more probably. In this case it does not matter did they use protection, because they both have the virus.
You have evidence for this claim, of course? No way it's more likely that people denying Covid science who then get sick or die from Covid are inherently noteworthy, thus get more attention than others?

Nah, probably a conspiracy.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Yeeeees... the odds ARE higher of dying of Covid if you're unvaccinated. People against the vaccine are unvaccinated, thus have higher odds of dying of Covid. There's no conspiracy here, just basic maths.

People who swim in the ocean are more likely to drown than people who never go near water. That doesn't require a conspiracy against swimmers to explain.
I am not sure if I explained this myself to him. Probably not. It is amazing how so many make the same obvious error.. It is not that hard to find the statistic that tell us that when the number of vaccinated was roughly equal to the number of unvaccinated in the U.S. that even though some vaccinated people got Covid one was still upwards of one hundred more times likely to die from it if one was unvaccinated. With odds like that it is rather obvious why only well known antivaxxers are dying today.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
I am not sure if I explained this myself to him. Probably not. It is amazing how so many make the same obvious error.. It is not that hard to find the statistic that tell us that when the number of vaccinated was roughly equal to the number of unvaccinated in the U.S. that even though some vaccinated people got Covid one was still upwards of one hundred more times likely to die from it if one was unvaccinated. With odds like that it is rather obvious why only well known antivaxxers are dying today.
Someone has at least explained it prior to, likely multiple times.
 

Kangaroo Feathers

Yea, it is written in the Book of Cyril...
I am not sure if I explained this myself to him. Probably not. It is amazing how so many make the same obvious error.. It is not that hard to find the statistic that tell us that when the number of vaccinated was roughly equal to the number of unvaccinated in the U.S. that even though some vaccinated people got Covid one was still upwards of one hundred more times likely to die from it if one was unvaccinated. With odds like that it is rather obvious why only well known antivaxxers are dying today.
You'd think. But never underestimate the appeal of believing something irrational that you really WANT to be true. It's a lot more fun claiming there's persecution and conspiracy rather than taking sensible precautions, right up until you are in an ICU, I suspect. Sadly it's a bit like the climate "debate" everyone who's likely to be convinced already has been. Now we're in the unfortunate but apparently necessary position of waiting for the deniers and doublers down to, yaknow, die off. Not that I'm wishing anyone ill, but it's hard feeling much compassion for people actively making things worse for themselves and others.
 

1213

Well-Known Member

1213

Well-Known Member
...
Now, how about addressing the point of how responsiblity and freedom go hand in hand and are inseparable for a healthy society to not descend into chaos.

I think people should have responsibility and freedom to live their own life. If everyone would live freely their own life, it would not be chaos. It would be simple order, where everyone is the ruler of their own life. Most of the problems in life comes when people want to rule others, that leads to war and violence.

If people would be free and independent, there could be a possibility to get some disease from others. If person wants to avoid that, he should be free to stay at his home, or use protection and that would solve the problem, no need to restrict the rights and freedoms of others.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Wow! Idiots die and they are replaced by people that can think and that scares you?
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
I think people should have responsibility and freedom to live their own life. If everyone would live freely their own life, it would not be chaos. It would be simple order, where everyone is the ruler of their own life. Most of the problems in life comes when people want to rule others, that leads to war and violence.

If people would be free and independent, there could be a possibility to get some disease from others. If person wants to avoid that, he should be free to stay at his home, or use protection and that would solve the problem, no need to restrict the rights and freedoms of others.
No one's rights are being restricted.

Can you attempt to debate this properly? Facts only. No lies about others or Covid19.
 

Kangaroo Feathers

Yea, it is written in the Book of Cyril...
Cherry picking examples is not evidence, as discussed. As discussed, these people make a spectacle of themselves being anti-covid counter measures, so of course it attracts attention when they catch covid.

So try again, with, I dunno, maybe some actual statistics and per capita figures, or stop making alarmist conspiratorial claims.
 

Kangaroo Feathers

Yea, it is written in the Book of Cyril...
When the minimizing risk means basically that we could as well be dead, I don’t like it. I think people should be free to live normally. I don’t think drunk driving is normal life, if you think it is, I am sorry for you. Reason why I have no problem with forbidding drunk driving is that it is not essential to anyone, it is very probably harmful for the person and others. But, perhaps it would not be needed to restrict. If person does so and causes damage, he should be fully responsible of all that.



You think people care now? I don't see any evidence for that. On the contrary, I think people are very evil and selfish in how they want to destroy freedom and human rights. I don’t like the fascistic dystopia Covid tyrants are pushing to all.
Wearing masks is the same as "could as well be dead"? Grow up.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
I think people should have responsibility and freedom to live their own life. If everyone would live freely their own life, it would not be chaos. It would be simple order, where everyone is the ruler of their own life. Most of the problems in life comes when people want to rule others, that leads to war and violence.

If people would be free and independent, there could be a possibility to get some disease from others. If person wants to avoid that, he should be free to stay at his home, or use protection and that would solve the problem, no need to restrict the rights and freedoms of others.
If people live their own life, if everyone freely lived their life, this is a green flag and permission card for pedophiles, serial killers, manipulation, those woth anti-social tendencies, as well as those who wish to dominate others through force.
Without rules society doesn't function.
Amd remember, what seems normal and abnormal to you is likely different according to another.
 

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
When the minimizing risk means basically that we could as well be dead, I don’t like it.
I'm sorry but I don't know what you mean by this.

I think people should be free to live normally. I don’t think drunk driving is normal life, if you think it is, I am sorry for you. Reason why I have no problem with forbidding drunk driving is that it is not essential to anyone, it is very probably harmful for the person and others. But, perhaps it would not be needed to restrict. If person does so and causes damage, he should be fully responsible of all that.
I do not think drunk driving is "normal life," in fact I think it's dangerous and reckless and a potential (deadly) harm to other people around you. Much like people who don't protect themselves and others from COVID. I mean, we're talking about a highly contagious virus here. A virus that has killed at least four and a half million people, with 660,000 of them in the USA alone.


You think people care now? I don't see any evidence for that. On the contrary, I think people are very evil and selfish in how they want to destroy freedom and human rights. I don’t like the fascistic dystopia Covid tyrants are pushing to all.
In the area where I live, people do actually seem to care. People really cared at the start of this thing when we were doing all the lockdowns and stuff. Don't you remember when people used to go out on their balconies, porches, etc. every night to make noise in support of the frontline workers? Well, those frontline workers are still working to keep us all safe, whether we continue acknowledging them or not. They're probably pretty burned out by now, don't you think?

And regardless of whether or not people actually do care or not, that's still the kind of world I want to live in.

Who are the "fascistic dystopia Covid tyrants" and what are they "pushing to all?"
 

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
So the people who opposed public health measures during a global pandemic of a deadly disease all died. Which is exactly what one would expect would happen to them.
But you see a conspiracy here ... why?
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
I think people should have responsibility and freedom to live their own life. If everyone would live freely their own life, it would not be chaos. It would be simple order, where everyone is the ruler of their own life. Most of the problems in life comes when people want to rule others, that leads to war and violence.

If people would be free and independent, there could be a possibility to get some disease from others. If person wants to avoid that, he should be free to stay at his home, or use protection and that would solve the problem, no need to restrict the rights and freedoms of others.
A society comprising rational honorable humans with no
need for laws would be great. Tis the anarchist's utopia.
Alas, things never work that way in the real world.
Rights often conflict with each other, & compromise is
useful, eg, the right of a farmer to farm vs the right of
neighbors to not breathe in pesticides.

Should Typhoid Mary have the right to freely go about
infecting & killing people? Most people would say no.
The question isn't "if" we should compromise some
perceived rights, but when & in what manner.
Ref...
Mary Mallon - Wikipedia

We libertarians lean towards minimal restriction.
As I see it...
Governments have reacted by partially shutting down
much economic, educational, & social activity. If that
can be avoided by requiring vaccination & masking,
then this is a less authoritarian & less damaging policy.
 

1213

Well-Known Member
...
Should Typhoid Mary have the right to freely go about
infecting & killing people? ...

I think there is a big difference between intentionally poisoning others and living normal life. No one can ever quarantine that he can't spread some disease. But everyone can stop putting intentionally poison to another person’s food. I think it is ok, if we have a law that tells don't murder. And it is ok, if there is a punishment for that. But intentional murder is very different than unknowingly have some mild disease and possibly spreading it.
 

1213

Well-Known Member
So the people who opposed public health measures during a global pandemic of a deadly disease all died. Which is exactly what one would expect would happen to them...

Vast majority survive the disease. I also have had it and didn't die. It is folish to assume all die who get it. If I remember correctly, for people under 60, the probalitiy to die for it is less than 0,3%. So, if in some group that is much higher, there is something weird, in my opinion.
 

1213

Well-Known Member
...A virus that has killed at least four and a half million people, with 660,000 of them in the USA alone.
...

I don't believe that. But, even if it would be true, it should be seen in relation to whole population (less than 0,3 % of US population). Also, at least here in Finland the average age to die for it has been 82, same as the life expectancy. It is probably about the same in all countries. Unfortunately, it is so that when person gets old, he probably dies. Preventing life from young people, because old dies, is in my opinion evil.
 

1213

Well-Known Member
If people live their own life, if everyone freely lived their life, this is a green flag and permission card for pedophiles, serial killers, manipulation, those woth anti-social tendencies, as well as those who wish to dominate others through force.
....

All of those are interfering others life in a way that the other has not asked. As I said, people should only rule in their own life, not others.
 
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