Ancient Egyptian Papyrus Tells A Different Story About Biblical Isaac’s Fate

[sooda]

If a single global flood took place, there should be a layer that contains all the human artifacts of the time and nothing like that has ever been found. Additionally, there is no explanation for cultures that existed prior to and just after the proposed date of this flood. They can only be explained if they were wiped out by a flood and the magically recreated and repopulated immediately after the flood. If that were a realistic option, there would have been no need for Noah and his crew at all. Just recreate from scratch.

Well, for instance Baalbek wasn't wiped out by any flood and neither was Damascus.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Well, for instance Baalbek wasn't wiped out by any flood and neither was Damascus.

Egypt and cultures in China as well. In order to address this, one has to speculate that God decimated these cultures, then recreated and repopulated them immediately after the flood. Then the question arises, why not just do that and leave all the animals and plants that surely were not sinning and causing God to question his own creation. If Noah and his family were the only righteous people and bound for Heaven anyway, then taking them there directly would not be a problem.

 

[sooda]

Egypt and cultures in China as well. In order to address this, one has to speculate that God decimated these cultures, then recreated and repopulated them immediately after the flood.

Then the question arises, why not just do that and leave all the animals and plants that surely were not sinning and causing God to question his own creation. If Noah and his family were the only righteous people and bound for Heaven anyway, then taking them there directly would not be a problem.

The story is just silly on it face.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

The story is just silly on it face.

If it were meant to be taken literally by the original author or authors as an explanation for some large regional or local cataclysmic flood using the only knowledge they had at the time, subsequent generations should understand that and treat it as allegory with an eye to the underlying message.

When viewed as an example of some literal historical event in light of reason and evidence, it is very silly.

 

[sooda]

If it were meant to be taken literally by the original author or authors as an explanation for some large regional or local cataclysmic flood using the only knowledge they had at the time, subsequent generations should understand that and treat it as allegory with an eye to the underlying message.

When viewed as an example of some literal historical event in light of reason and evidence, it is very silly.

I doubt it was intended to be taken literally.

 

[David T]

Noah's flood was not that deep. The Euphrates river basin is quite flat and starts at about 30 feet above sea level running down to sea level where it enters the Persian Gulf.

It also had nothing to do with the collapse of a glacial dam. It was caused by spring snowmelt from the mountains combined with heavy rains.

Flood nanrratves are many many thousands of years older than written ones from which written ones are derived from struturally that can be called flood narrative.

 

[sooda]

Flood nanrratves are many many thousands of years older than written ones from which written ones are derived from struturally that can be called flood narrative.

Ziusudra was a king from Shuruppak.. He hauled grain, livestock and beer down river on barges to sell circa 2900 BC. Its documented and there is a flood footprint.

 

[sooda]

 

[Dan From Smithville]

I doubt it was intended to be taken literally.

I can see the possibility at the time of origin, but by now, we should all know better.

 

[sooda]

I can see the possibility at the time of origin, but by now, we should all know better.

Most of the Grimm's Brothers fairy tales are thousands of years old and I doubt they were ever intended to be taken literally. Didactic literature was for teaching ... morality tales. I think humans have been storytellers since they could speak.

 

[sooda]

Written by a former Greek slave, in the late to mid-6th century BCE, Aesop’s Fables are the world’s best known collection of morality tales.

The fables, numbering 725, were originally told from person-to-person as much for entertainment purposes but largely as a means for relaying or teaching a moral or lesson.

Aesop's Fables

These early stories are essentially allegorical myths often portraying animals or insects e.g. foxes, grasshoppers, frogs, cats, dogs, ants, crabs, stags, and monkeys representing humans engaged in human-like situations (a belief known as animism).

Ultimately the fables represent one of the oldest characteristics of human life: storytelling.

 

[David T]

Ziusudra was a king from Shuruppak.. He hauled grain, livestock and beer down river on barges to sell circa 2900 BC. Its documented and there is a flood footprint.

what that story is rooted at times in certain historical events? I am not sure here exactly why you find that important and not self evident. Please explain.. I mean thats like theology 101

 

[sooda]

what that story is rooted at times in certain historical events? I am not sure here exactly why you find that important and not self evident. Please explain.. I mean thats like theology 101

The floods that inspired the myth were infrequent but that's how the delta south of Basra was built up.

It wasn't global.

Teaching narratives and morality tales were as much for entertainment as for teaching. That's what storytellers do.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Most of the Grimm's Brothers fairy tales are thousands of years old and I doubt they were ever intended to be taken literally. Didactic literature was for teaching ... morality tales. I think humans have been storytellers since they could speak.

It is something that I have always found fascinating about the history behind the stories of the Grimm's fairy tales. Those original stories were never meant for kiddies, but that has been the market for them over the last century.

In one very old version of Snow White, she was awakened from her poisoned slumber by the two infants she was nursing. The implications there would not translate well into modern children's literature.

I was thinking in terms of some of the oral traditions of tribal groups and how stories like that were intended as lessons and as a narrative to describe events that were the result of a limited understanding of the world. It is difficult to know the intent of such things taken place in the remote past, so I am allowing the possibility while recognizing that what you say is possible too based on the evidence you mention. In any event, taking them literally today does not make any sense and obfuscates any real meaning that one can learn from the stories.

 

[sooda]

It is something that I have always found fascinating about the history behind the stories of the Grimm's fairy tales. Those original stories were never meant for kiddies, but that has been the market for them over the last century.

In one very old version of Snow White, she was awakened from her poisoned slumber by the two infants she was nursing. The implications there would not translate well into modern children's literature.

I was thinking in terms of some of the oral traditions of tribal groups and how stories like that were intended as lessons and as a narrative to describe events that were the result of a limited understanding of the world. It is difficult to know the intent of such things taken place in the remote past, so I am allowing the possibility while recognizing that what you say is possible too based on the evidence you mention. In any event, taking them literally today does not make any sense and obfuscates any real meaning that one can learn from the stories.

I think you are making this too hard.. What is the purpose of storytelling?

 

[Dan From Smithville]

The floods that inspired the myth were infrequent but that's how the delta south of Basra was built up.

It wasn't global.

Teaching narratives and morality tales were as much for entertainment as for teaching. That's what storytellers do.

Now that I think about it, you may be more right on this than I am. Many storytellers do not expect their audience to view the story as a real event even if they tell it as one, but some people do tell tales with an eye on convincing others to take them literally.

Given the impossibility of knowing author intent of thousands of years old stories that were embellished and traded over time, it is probably more important to realize that we cannot take them literally today.

Sorry if I have seemed to be stuck on that notion. It is just a curiosity that gnaws at me on occasion.

 

[David T]

The floods that inspired the myth were infrequent but that's how the delta south of Basra was built up.

It wasn't global.

Teaching narratives and morality tales were as much for entertainment as for teaching. That's what storytellers do.

Indeed. Like i said the story framework is really old. It just gets redressed over generations. All one has to do is watch how movie universes shift over time. But they also have common aspects as well.

Todays "god" can esily be tomorrows "nature" but then again these old stories and nature were more singularly felt and understood, regardless how we have that split that psychologically today. Thats an odd split.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

I think you are making this too hard.. What is the purpose of storytelling?

I would say that it varies, but most of those told around campfires are told to thrill, entertain, and enlighten as you suggest. Telling the tale of the lovers that find a hook in the handle of their car one night is not intended to be taken literally, but to provide a lesson that going off alone on a dark night in a remote area can be dangerous.

 

[David T]

Now that I think about it, you may be more right on this than I am. Many storytellers do not expect their audience to view the story as a real event even if they tell it as one, but some people do tell tales with an eye on convincing others to take them literally.

Given the impossibility of knowing author intent of thousands of years old stories that were embellished and traded over time, it is probably more important to realize that we cannot take them literally today.

Sorry if I have seemed to be stuck on that notion. It is just a curiosity that gnaws at me on occasion.

Many storytellers do not expect their audience to view the story as a real event even if they tell it as one, but some people do tell tales with an eye on convincing others to take them literally.

Some of the worst culprits do ut unintentionally.

 

[sooda]

Now that I think about it, you may be more right on this than I am. Many storytellers do not expect their audience to view the story as a real event even if they tell it as one, but some people do tell tales with an eye on convincing others to take them literally.

Given the impossibility of knowing author intent of thousands of years old stories that were embellished and traded over time, it is probably more important to realize that we cannot take them literally today.

Sorry if I have seemed to be stuck on that notion. It is just a curiosity that gnaws at me on occasion.

You know I have regard for you...

Consider the stories of Joshua's conquests... He didn't have any big armies and he didn't destroy any Canaanite cities. If he had any battles they were skirmishes, but that doesn't make great stories.