Anarchocommunism

[syo]

Communism alone won't work. There must be Anarchy so that Communism may work. I vote for the far-left communist party BUT they wrote an article AGAINST anarchy.

Now, that made me furious, but if I don't vote for them, what options do I have?

So, will there be a day when communists see the need for Anarchy too?

 

[ADigitalArtist]

*Mod post* Just a heads up this is in the communist only section. *Mod post*

 

[Laika]

Communism alone won't work. There must be Anarchy so that Communism may work. I vote for the far-left communist party BUT they wrote an article AGAINST anarchy.

Now, that made me furious, but if I don't vote for them, what options do I have?

So, will there be a day when communists see the need for Anarchy too?

After Socialism emerged from the French Revolution in the 1790's, Communism and Anarchism were on the same side until after the Paris commune in 1871. Karl Marx knew Alexander Bakunin and borrowed ideas from Proudhon. The experience of the Paris commune raised questions of the role of the state in the immediate aftermath of a revolution. These divisions between Anarchists and Social Democrats split the First international in the 1870's and 1880's.

So Communists are not strictly "against" anarchy, they take the view that the working class needs a "state" to defend itself immediately after the revolution until the division of society in to classes and the class struggle has waned and the state will "wither away". Anarchists generally believe that a stateless society and individual freedom is a natural condition of man, whereas Marxists believe it requires a specific process of social-historical evolution to achieve a stateless society.

In his youth, Stalin wrote a draft for an article on "Anarchism or Socialism?" which set out the differences between them. Where this get's complicated is that the Soviet Union under Stalin developed the view that the state must defend the economic base, so the power of the state as the "dictatorship of the proletariat" must be maximised to prevent a counter-revolution and the restoration of capitalism. Consequently talk of the "withering away of the state" was treated as both premature and "counter-revolutionary" in the 1930's.

In Marxist theory, North Korea, China, Cuba, Vietnam and Laos remained committed to the withering away of the state. They do not intend to be "dictatorships" forever, but only so long as the transition period from capitalism to communism requires. I would guess therefore that, as Marxist-Leninists, Kim Jong Un and Xi Jing Ping will still basically believe in the withering away of the state and the necessity of a stateless society as part of communism.

In so far as it is consistent with Marxism-Leninism, the goal of North Korean society is to become ultimately a stateless, "anarchist" society....

and yes... I know how insane that sounds..but that's the Marxist dialectic for you.

It's what makes Kim Jong Un think he's the good guy trying to free us all from our evil capitalist masters under the radioactive glow of some mushroom clouds. Nuking America is the socialist path to Freedom.

 

[syo]

After Socialism emerged from the French Revolution in the 1790's, Communism and Anarchism were on the same side until after the Paris commune in 1871. Karl Marx knew Alexander Bakunin and borrowed ideas from Proudhon. The experience of the Paris commune raised questions of the role of the state in the immediate aftermath of a revolution. These divisions between Anarchists and Social Democrats split the First international in the 1870's and 1880's.

So Communists are not strictly "against" anarchy, they take the view that the working class needs a "state" to defend itself immediately after the revolution until the division of society in to classes and the class struggle has waned and the state will "wither away". Anarchists generally believe that a stateless society and individual freedom is a natural condition of man, whereas Marxists believe it requires a specific process of social-historical evolution to achieve a stateless society.

In his youth, Stalin wrote a draft for an article on "Anarchism or Socialism?" which set out the differences between them. Where this get's complicated is that the Soviet Union under Stalin developed the view that the state must defend the economic base, so the power of the state as the "dictatorship of the proletariat" must be maximised to prevent a counter-revolution and the restoration of capitalism. Consequently talk of the "withering away of the state" was treated as both premature and "counter-revolutionary" in the 1930's.

In Marxist theory, North Korea, China, Cuba, Vietnam and Laos remained committed to the withering away of the state. They do not intend to be "dictatorships" forever, but only so long as the transition period from capitalism to communism requires. I would guess therefore that, as Marxist-Leninists, Kim Jong Un and Xi Jing Ping will still basically believe in the withering away of the state and the necessity of a stateless society as part of communism.

In so far as it is consistent with Marxism-Leninism, the goal of North Korean society is to become ultimately a stateless, "anarchist" society....

and yes... I know how insane that sounds..but that's the Marxist dialectic for you.

It's what makes Kim Jong Un think he's the good guy trying to free us all from our evil capitalist masters under the radioactive glow of some mushroom clouds. Nuking America is the socialist path to Freedom.

Thank you a lot for the reply!

''Anarchists generally believe that a stateless society and individual freedom is a natural condition of man, whereas Marxists believe it requires a specific process of social-historical evolution to achieve a stateless society.''
This dichotomy you wrote is spot on! I also believe that anarchy is a natural condition.

But Marxists are right. Social entropy took place because of capitalism *shudder* and people became inhumane. Who can blame Marxists?

If socialist leaders want a final communistic anarchy society, then communism may happen. But I also believe that humans must also reconnect with their hearts.

 

[Laika]

If socialist leaders want a final communistic anarchy society, then communism may happen. But I also believe that humans must also reconnect with their hearts.

Yeah. It would certainly help. A little kindness can go a long way.

 

[syo]

Yeah. It would certainly help. A little kindness can go a long way.

A warm, kind heart can regulate blood better too.

 

[Heyo]

*Mod post* Just a heads up this is in the communist only section. *Mod post*

Yes, and usually I accept the xyz-only groups but when talking about anarchocommunism, shouldn't anarchist be invited to the discussion?

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

my opinion is that true communism requires local government that is democratic, and probably should involve something approaching consensus rather than simple majority. I also think that individual enterprise needs to happen...with the emphasis on individuals and small groups. Any enterprise involving more than a handful of individuals should automatically be suspect...

 

[Laika]

Yes, and usually I accept the xyz-only groups but when talking about anarchocommunism, shouldn't anarchist be invited to the discussion?

Anarcho-Communists and Religious Communists are allowed to use the Communist Only Sub-forum. The definition of Communism isn't limited to Marxists or anything like that. It's for anyone who self-identifies as Communist.

Anarchist and Religious Communists Welcome

Make yourself at home. The more the merrier.

 

[Heyo]

Anarcho-Communists and Religious Communists are allowed to use the Communist Only Sub-forum. The definition of Communism isn't limited to Marxists or anything like that. It's for anyone who self-identifies as Communist.

Anarchist and Religious Communists Welcome

Make yourself at home. The more the merrier.

Well, I'm not an anarchocommunist, I'm an anarchist. And whenever anarchists have collaborated with communists they woke up with a knife in their back. So we are not exactly on friendly terms.

 

[syo]

Well, I'm not an anarchocommunist, I'm an anarchist. And whenever anarchists have collaborated with communists they woke up with a knife in their back. So we are not exactly on friendly terms.

In my opinion, anarchy is communism's oxygen. These two go hand in hand, in my book. it's because of anarchy that i trust communism.

 

[Heyo]

In my opinion, anarchy is communism's oxygen. These two go hand in hand, in my book. it's because of anarchy that i trust communism.

I think that authoritarianism is the only thing anarchists can't be friends with. While anarchists are all over the spectrum from left to right, there is no and there can't be an authoritarian anarchist. I.e. when we have overcome the capital, we must split. No dictatorship, not even a dictatorship of the people, with anarchists.

 

[syo]

I think that authoritarianism is the only thing anarchists can't be friends with. While anarchists are all over the spectrum from left to right, there is no and there can't be an authoritarian anarchist. I.e. when we have overcome the capital, we must split. No dictatorship, not even a dictatorship of the people, with anarchists.

People aren't meant to live alone. We need eachother.

edit
authoritarianism is evil.

 

[Laika]

Well, I'm not an anarchocommunist, I'm an anarchist. And whenever anarchists have collaborated with communists they woke up with a knife in their back. So we are not exactly on friendly terms.

No worries. Feel free to start a few threads in this sub-forum. Anarchism (stateless, classless society) basically still counts. I'd just be happy to have someone to talk to and make this place a little more active.

 

[Heyo]

No worries. Feel free to start a few threads in this sub-forum. Anarchism (stateless, classless society) basically still counts. I'd just be happy to have someone to talk to and make this place a little more active.

Let's start by staying in this thread and defining anarchocommunism. The Wikipedia article describes something that I know as anarcho-syndicalism. (Compare the two articles and tell me the difference.)
Either way, the "True Communists" were enemies of the idea.

 

[Laika]

Let's start by staying in this thread and defining anarchocommunism. The Wikipedia article describes something that I know as anarcho-syndicalism. (Compare the two articles and tell me the difference.)
Either way, the "True Communists" were enemies of the idea.

I'd define Anarcho-Communism as the belief in a stateless society build on common ownership. This typically means common ownership is understood as co-operative ownership rather than State ownership. Generally, I'd say the two major examples of Anarcho-Communism in the twentieth century are the "Free Territory" of Ukraine (1918 to 1921) and Revolutionary Catalonia (1936 to 1939).