Analysis of Roman Catholicism

[Unveiled Artist]

We don't call it God. We call it the 'word' of God.

w- ord being scripture not Christ, right?

Semantics? It is Divine/Holy

I was saying Divine is an adjective not a noun. In other words, scripture as divine is an description about scripture not what the scripture is. So, the scripture is divine is different than saying the scripture is the Word (if that's what you mean above?) or are you saying word-as in written word?

....

The verse I gave you translates as; Christ says: Why do you search the scriptures for eternal life even they testify (or give justification) about me?

In other words, why are you (or some of you) going to scripture as if it has eternal life rather than going to christ himself?

If that's not you, then let me know. Understand?

I don't do that.

I said if you go to the Church and pray in front of a statue but address god, who would you be praying to?

I didn't bring up statues. I don't know why you keep talking about statues.

I was comparing it to how a lot of Christians see the Bible. To me, it looks like without the Bible you all don't have Christ. When I think that, I think idolism and it's the same thing that I see ex-catholics and non-catholics accuse Catholics of when they supposedly pray to statues.

It's a comparison between how many Christians view the Bible as divine just as you guys think Catholics view statues as divine. The former, I can understand because divine describes the nature of scripture. The latter just from experience makes no sense whatsoever.

 

[Desert Snake]

w- ord being scripture not Christ, right?

Yes. The entire Bible,

I was saying Divine is an adjective not a noun. In other words, scripture as divine is an description about scripture not what the scripture is. So, the scripture is divine is different than saying the scripture is the Word (if that's what you mean above?) or are you saying word-as in written word?

Yes, description

The verse I gave you translates as; Christ says: Why do you search the scriptures for eternal life even they testify (or give justification) about me?

In other words, why are you (or some of you) going to scripture as if it has eternal life rather than going to christ himself?
If that's not you, then let me know. Understand?

Nah, I think that He's saying, the Scripture proves my presence, hence, you should accept me /Jesus. He is actually reaffirming Scripture, here.

I was comparing it to how a lot of Christians see the Bible. To me, it looks like without the Bible you all don't have Christ. When I think that, I think idolism and it's the same thing that I see ex-catholics and non-catholics accuse Catholics of when they supposedly pray to statues.

...

It's a comparison between how many Christians view the Bible as divine just as you guys think Catholics view statues as divine. The former, I can understand because divine describes the nature of scripture. The latter just from experience makes no sense whatsoever.

No, it's a matter of how one reveres the statues

 

[Desert Snake]

w- ord being scripture not Christ, right?



I was saying Divine is an adjective not a noun. In other words,

In other words, why are you (or some of you) going to scripture as if it has eternal life rather than going to christ himself?

If that's not you, then let me know. Understand?

Ideally you would do both. Of course you have to accept Jesus, so forth

Interpretation is important, as well, because of the language of the Bible. Of course, any way to receive to the message is fine

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Yes. The entire Bible,

Good. A lot of people look like they worship the Bible as if it were Christ/Word.

Yes, description

That makes more sense.

Nah, I think that He's saying, the Scripture proves my presence, hence, you should accept me /Jesus. He is actually reaffirming Scripture, here.

Naw. It's point blank; no analogy. "You search scriptures as if they give you eternal life; even they testify about me."

You look to scriptures as if scriptures=eternal life

I am the way to eternal life and even scriptures testify that I am the way not scriptures.

No, it's a matter of how one reveres the statues

How do you pray and worship to statues by bowing in front of them? I bow sometimes in front of my grandmothers pictures but I am not revering or worshiping the hard plastic frame and photo that's in it. That's silly.

Get this.

They do not pray to statues. They pray to consecrated bread and wine. Telling them they pray to statues is telling them they pray to a block of cement as if it were Jesus Christ. They believe consecrated bread and wine is Jesus Christ. Ya'll debating about the wrong "thing" if you'd like to call it that.

Statue debate is ridiculous. I really really really wish some protestants would go in front of a statue, bow, and say "god, can you help me understand John 3:16". If they think they are worshiping a statue even though they addressed god, then most Catholics would just laugh, shake their head, and walk away.​

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Ideally you would do both. Of course you have to accept Jesus, so forth

Interpretation is important, as well, because of the language of the Bible. Of course, any way to receive to the message is fine

You'd go to both scriptures and christ as if they both obtain eternal life?

 

[Desert Snake]

Naw. It's point blank; no analogy. "You search scriptures as if they give you eternal life; even they testify about me."

You look to scriptures as if scriptures=eternal life

I am the way to eternal life and even scriptures testify that I am the way not scriptures.

You just missed the obvious. The Scriptures testify to Jesus. How could they do that, if not Divine, and Jesus affirming this?

Get this.

They do not pray to statues. They pray to consecrated bread and wine. Telling them they pray to statues is telling them they pray to a block of cement as if it were Jesus Christ. They believe consecrated bread and wine is Jesus Christ. Ya'll debating about the wrong "thing" if you'd like to call it that.

Statue debate is ridiculous. I really really really wish some protestants would go in front of a statue, bow, and say "god, can you help me understand John 3:16". If they think they are worshiping a statue even though they addressed god, then most Catholics would just laugh, shake their head, and walk away.​

Your statues, your problem
It's something that I don't do, /don't even understand, that's all

 

[Desert Snake]

You'd go to both scriptures and christ as if they both obtain eternal life?

Yes, in a way. The Scriptures can lead to salvation, by de facto relationship to Jesus. If you don't have the Scriptures, you are setting yourself up for a more difficult time/ not always, but why would you make that decision

 

[Unveiled Artist]

The Scriptures testify to Jesus

Scriptures testify about jesus. It's just saying scriptures arent the way to eternal life.

Do you think they are? (given you said they are not Christ)?

You just missed the obvious. The Scriptures testify to Jesus. How could they do that, if not Divine, and Jesus affirming this?

Scriptures being divine does not mean they offer eternal life. Jesus said they do not offer eternal life. (he does) Even scripture says this (he says)

It's something that I don't do, /don't even understand, that's all

I know you don't have to. How do you disagree to something you don't understand and/or understand by experience?

That's like my saying that you worship the bible/book all because I don't understand why you'd compare the book as if it were god (if that were you). Instead, I asked to understand. That's how I experience it for myself is to seek understanding. That doesn't mean I worship christ or the word by doing so. It just means I love to learn and understand why people think the way they do.

But, really, you have to at least try it once to stand in front of a statue (or chair, or boat) and pray to god to see if you are praying to these objects or to god. I dont understand how anyone can say they are praying to, say, a chair when they are addressing god.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

OOOOHHHH

Yes, in a way. The Scriptures can lead to salvation, by de facto relationship to Jesus

Christ said that scriptures do not lead to salvation.

He related scriptures to himself by saying even they say "he and only he is the way to eternal life."

He does not say scriptures are the way. The only other person that leads you to salvation other than christ is his father since his father speaks through christ. Scriptures, as christ says, speaks about him and justifies his statement.

If you don't have the Scriptures, you are setting yourself up for a more difficult time/ not always, but why would you make that decision

I can only see that because without scriptures, logically, one wouldnt have intellectual knowledge of christ. Just as if I don't have my class textbook, I wouldn't know the class material.

However, if you are searching through scriptures for christ (eternal life) you're doing opposite of what he and scripture (that backs up his statement) says.

 

[Desert Snake]

OOOOHHHH



Christ said that scriptures do not lead to salvation.

He related scriptures to himself by saying even they say "he and only he is the way to eternal life."

...

He does not say scriptures are the way. The only other person that leads you to salvation other than christ is his father since his father speaks through christ. Scriptures, as christ says, speaks about him and justifies his statement.



I can only see that because without scriptures, logically, one wouldnt have intellectual knowledge of christ. Just as if I don't have my class textbook, I wouldn't know the class material.

However, if you are searching through scriptures for christ (eternal life) you're doing opposite of what he and scripture (that backs up his statement) says.

And how did you 'know that'??
You quoted Scripture!
Unless you are saying that you literally don't use Scripture, at all, then, you are contradicting yourself.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

...




And how did you 'know that'??
You quoted Scripture!
Unless you are saying that you literally don't use Scripture, at all, then, you are contradicting yourself.

Know what?

EDIT

I'm just saying that jesus said not to look to scripture for eternal life but to himself. "Even scripture says this"; he says. To put scripture in layman's terms.

With statues, that's just an weird argument given many people who argue about it probably never prayed in front of a statue before. Especially when they associate it with religion. Of course, if it's a chair then its a wall, the wall isn't religious in nature, so they are more comfortable and dont even give thought that they are praying in front of something because they know they are addressing god.

I dont understand how that is hard to understand.

You are addressing god not the statue. Praying in front of it or anything else religious or not has nothing to do with it.

 

[David T]

Oh it's by definition totally Christian. It tends to be hyper self referentialistic and circular, asks whether or not this or that is valid to itself and is basically completely whacky or use the scientific term NORMAL!!! Occasionally there is someone who actually articulates but rare, an they usually are saints. In evangelicalism they are almost either heritics or not " followers of Jesus Christ who died for your wicked ways and rose from the dead literally and dianasurs are a gimmick". The evangelical john Muir comes to mind in context to evangelicalism. Not a single evangelical would say john Muir was an evangelical. Ha now that's funny and normal as well. Crappy artists good at making a buck though those evangelicals.

 

[Desert Snake]

Know what?

EDIT

I'm just saying that jesus said not to look to scripture for eternal life but to himself. "Even scripture says this"; he says. To put scripture in layman's terms.

With statues, that's just an weird argument given many people who argue about it probably never prayed in front of a statue before. Especially when they associate it with religion. Of course, if it's a chair then its a wall, the wall isn't religious in nature, so they are more comfortable and dont even give thought that they are praying in front of something because they know they are addressing god.

I dont understand how that is hard to understand.

You are addressing god not the statue. Praying in front of it or anything else religious or not has nothing to do with it.

I don't the statue is like the Bible, at all. The Statue is not Divine, at all. The only way that you would think it's the same, is if you don't think that the Bible is divine.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I don't the statue is like the Bible, at all. The Statue is not Divine, at all. The only way that you would think it's the same, is if you don't think that the Bible is divine.

That's not what I'm saying. I am saying a Catholic and the Protestant does not think the statue is divine. So, praying in front of a statue

is no way close

to praying with the bible which both of you say is divine.

The reason I compared the two is because I know you said the Bible isn't god; so, you don't bow and worship the actual leather book. You worship the Word not the words.

Likewise, even though a Catholic goes to the statue of Jesus, he is not worshiping a block of cement. He is worshiping the Word not a statue.

Can you see the comparison?

 

[Desert Snake]

The reason I compared the two is because I know you said the Bible isn't god; so, you don't bow and worship the actual leather book. You worship the Word not the words.

Likewise, even though a Catholic goes to the statue of Jesus, he is not worshiping a block of cement. He is worshiping the Word not a statue.

No, it's still completely different. The Scripture is literally divine, the statue is a sculpture. There's no comparison.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

No, it's still completely different. The Scripture is literally divine, the statue is a sculpture. There's no comparison.

(It's just me) That doesn't make sense. The only people who'd be divine is the Father, Son, and The Holy Spirit (or Spirit of Christ). You can use divine as in holy or sacred but to use it as equal to Christ (right?) is idolism. (edit) That's "seeing the scriptures as if they have eternal life." That's the point I raised in the beginning.

 

[Desert Snake]

(It's just me) That doesn't make sense. The only people who'd be divine is the Father, Son, and The Holy Spirit (or Spirit of Christ). You can use divine as in holy or sacred but to use it as equal to Christ (right?) is idolism. (edit) That's "seeing the scriptures as if they have eternal life." That's the point I raised in the beginning.

'Divine' is a general term. It means the 'same' thing, but in a different capacity. Hence, 'equal to Christ', ...no? That doesn't make it not Divine.

I really don't know why you think this is 'idolism'...
The only at it is idolism, is if you don't think the Scripture is actually divine, as I stated before. And, where would you get that idea... I'm not sure. Even if a church doesn't use the Bible, as much (catholics)? , it seems they would still teach that it is divine.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

'Divine' is a general term. It means the 'same' thing, but in a different capacity. Hence, 'equal to Christ', ...no? That doesn't make it not Divine.

Are you saying scripture is equal to Christ? (Clarification)

If so, in my opinion, like the trinity, it sounds like making scripture Christ himself.

When Christ says "you look to scripture as if it has eternal life" he is saying "you are looking to scripture as if it were me (who gives eternal life)" and he continues "even scriptures testify (says) the same thing/backs me up".

The only at it is idolism, is if you don't think the Scripture is actually divine, as I stated before

But if you think scripture is divine like Christ (if you think it offers you eternal life just as Christ) then it is considered idolism because you are putting something at the same level as Christ.There is only one god, right? One person that is considered divine? How can divinity, according to Christianity, have multiple meanings? Does it?

 

[Desert Snake]

Are you saying scripture is equal to Christ? (Clarification)

No. However, they are both divine.

If so, in my opinion, like the trinity, it sounds like making scripture Christ himself.

No.

When Christ says "you look to scripture as if it has eternal life" he is saying "you are looking to scripture as if it were me (who gives eternal life)" and he continues "even scriptures testify (says) the same thing/backs me up".

I don't think so. He acknowledges the validity of Scripture, and relates it to Himself. He doesn't say that they are wrong for revering Scripture in that manner.

But if you think scripture is divine like Christ (if you think it offers you eternal life just as Christ) then it is considered idolism because you are putting something at the same level as Christ.There is only one god, right? One person that is considered divine? How can divinity, according to Christianity, have multiple meanings? Does it?

Divine simply means of Deity. The Scripture is therefore divine, however not Deity itself; ie the paper etc is not literally deity.

A statue, is not divine, /or deity/.
Unless you worship idols,

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Thank you!

No. However, they are both divine.

I have a friend that can't live without her bible. She said it wasn't god, of course. Yet, it was divine enough that she can't live without it. I don't know if I consider that idolism or very dependent but if she can't live without it, IT think she close to that. I see many people like that and it makes me puzzled.

I don't think so. He acknowledges the validity of Scripture, and relates it to Himself. He doesn't say that they are wrong for revering Scripture in that manner.

He doesn't say it's wrong. He just says scripture "backs up" what he says.

Divine simply means of Deity. The Scripture is therefore divine, however not Deity itself; ie the paper etc is not literally deity.

Divine means holy or sacred. The suttras and sutras are divine because they are sacred. They aren't deities; and, not all deities are divine. (Ask Pagans).

I understand how scripture can be divine. I just don't see how they have anything to do with knowing god personally. Knowing about him as he mentioned, yes. Knowing him personally involves the holy spirit not the bible. But people call different things and/or people divine depending on the religion and religious.