An opinion on The Book of Revelation.

[Ophiuchus]

I do not know how to explain how to see the dreams or visions as I have, but all I can say is that you should all read the Bible and ask God or Christ for understanding before you sleep every night. Also, practice remembering your dreams every night, take note of what you see while you sleep. Go to sleep happy that you are about to receive Gods influences on your dreams.

This is what I have done for the last year, and I have had many Biblical dreams since I began. Some is directly from scripture and others that are not. For example; One dream was 21:1 Revelation, and another was a sentence from Job that is not in the scripture.

Most of the dreams happen right before I wake up now so they are easy to remember.

 

[ProfLogic]

I do not know how to explain how to see the dreams or visions as I have, but all I can say is that you should all read the Bible and ask God or Christ for understanding before you sleep every night. Also, practice remembering your dreams every night, take note of what you see while you sleep. Go to sleep happy that you are about to receive Gods influences on your dreams.

This is what I have done for the last year, and I have had many Biblical dreams since I began. Some is directly from scripture and others that are not. For example; One dream was 21:1 Revelation, and another was a sentence from Job that is not in the scripture.

Most of the dreams happen right before I wake up now so they are easy to remember.

It would have been perfect if you were awake and aware when you see this visions. Dreams may mean what you wanted, or suggested by some other awareness. When you are perfectly awake and aware now it really your conciousness.

 

[FerventGodSeeker]

To me, it just look like a metaphor, to with Jesus' pending birth, when Herod desperately tried to search and kill the infant destined to be king. Since the woman in the Revelation was also pregnant, I assumed it was talking of Mary, and I'm also assuming John, whoever wrote this, was talking of the past, not the future.

The dragon is indeed a metaphor, but as I showed you with the verse, John actually explains what the metaphor is, as he does frequently in Revelation...he identifies the dragon as "that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world". In the Christian mind, Satan is/was a very real being, the fallen angel who rules the demons and the world system.

 

[ProfLogic]

The dragon is indeed a metaphor, but as I showed you with the verse, John actually explains what the metaphor is, as he does frequently in Revelation...he identifies the dragon as "that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world". In the Christian mind, Satan is/was a very real being, the fallen angel who rules the demons and the world system.

Wouldn't it really reflect the natural things around them like the dragon and snake ... dragons being lizards that the ancient people never understood its value on earth. Thus are viewed as evil. Dragon and snakes are also refered in pagan religion, clearly the bible writers took this concept from the story of the babylonian creation. Coincidental, I am afraid not since it came hundreds of years before and christianity wanted to include pagan worshipers in their new religion thus evidence of the dragon and serpent had to be included.

 

[kai]

That's what some people think, that he was talking about his time, but what if he saw the future (which many people do believe), and he was prophecying of events to come.

Those things were meant to be metaphorically, and perhaps, there were things in his vision that weren't invented or seen yet and he there wasn't a name in his language for it.

I understand what you mean and i can see that point, but i tend to feel that rome was all encompassing to the people of the time and influenced everything.some times to the point of despair

 

[Bishka]

I understand what you mean and i can see that point, but i tend to feel that rome was all encompassing to the people of the time and influenced everything.some times to the point of despair

It could have been, but I still believe he was prophecying of the future.

 

[Ophiuchus]

It would have been perfect if you were awake and aware when you see this visions. Dreams may mean what you wanted, or suggested by some other awareness. When you are perfectly awake and aware now it really your conciousness.

Actually this is the only way to see what God wants you to see. If I was awake I would have no chance at ever seeing God's visions. Even if I have had these things happen to me while I was awake I would not be able to see it because the physical vision distorts the spiritual vision.

Many of the prophets hint that their visions were dreams. Daniel called his visions night visions. John writes about passing out before seeing his visions.

Dreams are the key to prophecy.

Also, I remember every dream I have every night, and have learned to be very much aware while I sleep for this very purpose. Aware enough to read and think and take mental notes.

 

[Ophiuchus]

I seen a future war in a dream before I was a Christian, I died and a book appeared. The book said something about Gog and Magog, but the rest I couldnt understand. After finding the words in the Bible I had a deja vu experience and remembered my dream. I was in shock!

 

[FerventGodSeeker]

Wouldn't it really reflect the natural things around them like the dragon and snake ... dragons being lizards that the ancient people never understood its value on earth. Thus are viewed as evil.

We know they don't refer to such things because John actually explains in the text itself what the images are...he explicitly says that the dragon is Satan, not just some ambiguous "nature" symbol.

Dragon and snakes are also refered in pagan religion, clearly the bible writers took this concept from the story of the babylonian creation. Coincidental, I am afraid not since it came hundreds of years before and christianity wanted to include pagan worshipers in their new religion thus evidence of the dragon and serpent had to be included.

So because some other religious writing mentions dragons some time before John wrote Revelation, John's inclusion of a dragon in the metaphor means he MUST have taken it from such a story? I suppose that's theoretically possible, but there's certainly no reason to assume it. Christians fought against the teachings of pagans, he wouldn't have used the same symbol just to appease potential converts...Revelation was a writing to Christians, and in Christ there is neither Jew nor Greek; theology is not based on the past beliefs of some converts.

FerventGodSeeker

 

[Mystic-als]

Dreams are the key to prophecy.

You cannot make a sweeping comment like this. I , for example, have had many visions while I was awake. The thing with sleeping is that it disconnects our rational thinking from the process. If you can do this while awake you don't need to be asleep to have a vision.
This is called meditation.

 

[ProfLogic]

We know they don't refer to such things because John actually explains in the text itself what the images are...he explicitly says that the dragon is Satan, not just some ambiguous "nature" symbol.
So because some other religious writing mentions dragons some time before John wrote Revelation, John's inclusion of a dragon in the metaphor means he MUST have taken it from such a story? I suppose that's theoretically possible, but there's certainly no reason to assume it. Christians fought against the teachings of pagans, he wouldn't have used the same symbol just to appease potential converts...Revelation was a writing to Christians, and in Christ there is neither Jew nor Greek; theology is not based on the past beliefs of some converts.

FerventGodSeeker

Its fairly not coincidental when the new religion wanted to include the old pagan worshippers. In the pagan epic, the dragon (and serpent) is an evil being created by an evil god to murder other gods. Now I am pretty sure the bible author had assess to this since paganism was popular during their times and could be considered as norm.

 

[ProfLogic]

Actually this is the only way to see what God wants you to see. If I was awake I would have no chance at ever seeing God's visions. Even if I have had these things happen to me while I was awake I would not be able to see it because the physical vision distorts the spiritual vision.

Many of the prophets hint that their visions were dreams. Daniel called his visions night visions. John writes about passing out before seeing his visions.

Dreams are the key to prophecy.

Also, I remember every dream I have every night, and have learned to be very much aware while I sleep for this very purpose. Aware enough to read and think and take mental notes.

You would be amazed of what you would see if you are fully aware and not in dreams where there is a potential that it is purely fantasy. Being awake is closer to reality than if you were dreaming. As a poster mentioned, you can be well aware and still see visions. There is also a technique called channeling. If you truly are gifted, it would show you the wonders of this world, as it did to me. Thats why I know that the battle of good and evil and this religious movement is but another tool of an awareness to make humanity create barriers amongst themselves. If you try it and another awareness comes, be firm and never lose focus that the life you have is yours not its to do what it pleases. Sharing your dreams in another thread would be something to think about. Only a fool would ever call someone insane/liar/illogical as I have seen on this forum.

 

[FerventGodSeeker]

Its fairly not coincidental when the new religion wanted to include the old pagan worshippers.

Yes, wanted to include them IN CHRISTIANITY, by sharing the Gospel with them. That doesn't mean, "wanted to include their practices and beliefs into Christianity". The two are drastically different.

In the pagan epic, the dragon (and serpent) is an evil being created by an evil god to murder other gods.

That's nice...pity that has almost no connection to Satan and the Christian God, but anyways...

Now I am pretty sure the bible author had assess to this since paganism was popular during their times and could be considered as norm

So what? The fact that such stories may or may not have been around doesn't mean he copied the images in Revelation from such stories, and again, you have no reason to assume that besides wishful thinking, which you seem to do a lot if it comes to trying to discredit Christianity.

FGS