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An opinion on The Book of Revelation.

Discussion in 'Biblical Debates' started by JustinJ86, Jun 16, 2006.

  1. JustinJ86

    JustinJ86 New Member

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    The following is my opinion on the book of revelation. i hope others with an interest in religion will enjoy this, then comment, so we can get some interesting discussion going.
    Revelation is the center piece of modern Judeo-Christian apocalypse mythology. It was originally written by John (not the baptist) as a letter to other christians of his time. John wrote this letter while imprisoned by the romans (for being a christian) on the island of patmos.

    In such situations people have a tendency to either go insane from isolation or tap into their subconscious for company. and im not just saying that to be funny. if any person, even a mentally healthy person, is deprived of sentient stimulus, then they will hallucinate (both auditory and visual) simply because the brain becomes bored and seeks entertainment.

    A lot of the symbols in the book of revelation are not original. In fact, some say that those symbols were used deliberately by John to convey a hidden message to the christians he was writing to, that the romans wouldn't understand. Most likely a message to reassure his fellow christians, as any good leader would do.

    John was counting on people from his time to understand just what his letter meant. now in our modern age it is regarded as a great mystery from god because it is rare that this generation of christians would think in terms of those arcane symbols. symbols like dragons in the sky and the signifigance of numbers. so modern theologians try to associate the symbols in johns letter with things like armies and war machines because we, like every generation, believe that the end is near.

    christians were facing terrible oppression and persecution during those early times in the religion's history. i think anyone who would be killed for their beliefs would want an escape from the world that hated them. believing that the world which is persecuting you for your beliefs would be destroyed by the god that you believed in, would indeed be a much needed emotional release. the idea of a holy apocalypse gave early christians hope and confidence that they were not dying without cause.

    today christians often interpret the book of revelations as describing a horrible opression that christians will have to face that weren't saved before the tribulation. but i believe it is important to note how much oppression christians were facing when the book was written. it is more likely that the angel of the lord that revealed all these things to John was actually a hallucination that John created to calm his own doubts.

    given the circumstances that john was enduring as one of the leaders of a religion that was costing people their lives, and as a prisoner, mental collapse should not be ruled out as a possibility.
    i will say here again, believing that the world which hates you for your beliefs would be destroyed by the god you believe in, would be a quenching emotional release.

    i feel that theologians can give so much creedence to the book of revelation because it was written by a man who was familiar with the jewish mythology which had been building up over the past 4000 years. the jewish religion is rich with fundamental archetypes that are synonymous with countless other religions. most religions are essentially telling the same story, but there are few (i would say) as well developed as the old testament and new testament. with that rich resevoir of information influencing John (the old testament), his subconscious would have a lot to draw from to create hallucinations and dreams. the well developed old testament also would give john a clear depiction of human nature. clear enough to write a poetic prose about his idea of how man's world would end, which could continue to mystify theologians for generations to come.

    the symbols of revelation were nothing new when john wrote them. that's why i'd say this book wasn't inspired by the divine as much as it was by previous religious concepts, symbols, and philosophies.
     
  2. Mike182

    Mike182 Flaming Queer

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    reading your first line, i thought Paul is the claimed author....
     
  3. ChrisP

    ChrisP Veteran Member

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    I I had been told it was the apostle John while in exile on Patmos (sp?)
     
  4. BruceDLimber

    BruceDLimber Well-Known Member

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    Greetings!

    As a Baha'i, I'm convinced the prophecies in Revelation (aka Apocalypse) have in fact already been fulfilled!

    And it happens that I have online an entire book giving a verse-by-verse Beha'i interpretation of Revelation, which I'll be happy to email free to anyone who cares to request it and give me an email address!

    (The book is 233 pages long; 450 including the index.)

    You may find it offers a few insights you hadn't thought of. . . .

    Best, :)

    Bruce
     
  5. Bick

    Bick Member

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    I would like to comment, but have a request, JustinJ86: Please improve your grammar. Use capitals for proper names, at the beginning of sentences and for "I".

    I interpret Revelation as literal as possible, noting that most of the symbols are explained. I believe it is all in the future, in the Lord's day (the Day of the Lord with the emphasis on "day" for John is in spirit in that day), Rev. 1:10.

    The biblical title of the book should be The Unveiling of the Lord Jesus Christ (Messiah), presenting Him to earth and heaven as King of kings and Lord of lords.

    Tradition assumes the unfolding started when John wrote it because in verse 1:1, AV, it reads .."must shortly come to pass.." but in the Greek the little word "in" is ignored and the literal meaning should be ".. must come to pass in haste, or swiftly.."

    The church/body of Christ has no part in this. The seven churches (ecclesias=called out assembly) are to be in Asia and can be likened to synagogues.

    To really understand the book, one must know the OT, for there are 285 references to the Hebrew scriptures.

    Thank you, Bick
     
  6. James the Persian

    James the Persian Dreptcredincios Crestin

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    You're quite right. John was exiled to Patmos, not imprisoned there. I'd also disagree with the OP strongly about it being any kind of a centrepiece at all. It almost didn't make it into the canon and is the only book that was not used in the Liturgy (and still is not in the Orthodox Church - not sure about the RCC). The fact that it is popular to the point of obsession with certain Protestant groups is insufficient to warrant describing it as a centrepiece for Christianity as a whole.

    James
     
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  7. MM21

    MM21 Member

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    Well...after taking an escatology class for 16 weeks I have come to one conclusion...that book is not to be taken literally, and all those metaphors and symbols we have no absolute as to what He was talking about. Only assumptions...It's really too hard to understand
     
  8. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    That's nice. Upon what, if anything, is this opinion based?
     
  9. Mystic-als

    Mystic-als Active Member

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    MM21 - I agree.

    You can study it for 50 years and never actually know what it is really saying. I had a teacher who believed it was total worship. Others base their churches on it. Some ignor it. Unfortuatly it's not much of a revelation. More a mystery.

     
  10. llbrolly

    llbrolly New Member

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    i dont no if you all realize this but peter also wrote a book of revelation.
    when the roman catholic church commissions a priest (i forget his name) to write the cannon he had his own beliefs about what books were acceptable and what you know today is the result. also u can never know the true revelation bc many words are lost in translation and by that i mean from hebrew to english. so really its hard to discuss the bible bc it has been changed and alot of the ideas is based on personal opinion of wat is the correct way to worship
     
  11. James the Persian

    James the Persian Dreptcredincios Crestin

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    First, the Roman Catholic Church didn't commission a priest to create the canon. The Roman Catholic Church is only one See (of 5) of the ancient Catholic Church and therefore did not even exist as such when the canon was formed (or until the Great Schism of 1054). The canon was argued over for hundreds of years by various Fathers and councils and no one man was responsible for it. In fact, there has never been a single, fixed canon up to this day.

    Second, Revelation is in the New Testament and, hence, was written in Greek, not Hebrew. Whilst you are undoubtedly right that there is a difficulty translating from another language into English, Hebrew doesn't come into it (except with the Old Testament, and not even all of that - or any of it if you happen to use the Septuagint). Of course, if you want to get around the translation problem you could just go and learn Koine Greek. Or ask someone, such as a priest, who has studied the language to explain.

    James
     
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  12. angellous_evangellous

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    No kidding.
     
  13. angellous_evangellous

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    A lot of the symbols in the book of revelation are not original. In fact, some say that those symbols were used deliberately by John to convey a hidden message to the christians he was writing to, that the romans wouldn't understand. Most likely a message to reassure his fellow christians, as any good leader would do.
    John was counting on people from his time to understand just what his letter meant. now in our modern age it is regarded as a great mystery from god because it is rare that this generation of christians would think in terms of those arcane symbols. symbols like dragons in the sky and the signifigance of numbers. so modern theologians try to associate the symbols in johns letter with things like armies and war machines because we, like every generation, believe that the end is near.

    Only the most inadequate and irresponsible person would associate anything in Revelation with anything from our time.

    christians were facing terrible oppression and persecution during those early times in the religion's history. i think anyone who would be killed for their beliefs would want an escape from the world that hated them. believing that the world which is persecuting you for your beliefs would be destroyed by the god that you believed in, would indeed be a much needed emotional release. the idea of a holy apocalypse gave early christians hope and confidence that they were not dying without cause.

    I agree.

    the symbols of revelation were nothing new when john wrote them. that's why i'd say this book wasn't inspired by the divine as much as it was by previous religious concepts, symbols, and philosophies.

    I don't understand how you can argue that the Divine would exclude symbols that already have meaning for John and his audience.

    It's like saying "because the Bible was written in Greek, it cannot be from God."
     
  14. ProfLogic

    ProfLogic Well-Known Member

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    You are mostly correct, the thoughts were mostly made up and if you noticed most of the writings are what was known during his time. There are no modern references. If there were it is so vague that you can not decipher the meaning. However, there are unknown awareness in this world of ours. A few people have been either cursed or as they say blest to expirence this other awareness. I have talked to people with the Jesus Christ complex and you have a lot to learn with those people. People call them madman but I use them to collect valuable data about this world and a glimpse og the human pysche. I highly suspect that John had this incident. He did have total control but eventually what his wants is what he wrote about. Sceince has a lot more things to know about the human mind. How our awareness came to fruition. There is another awareness who clouds the human mind and its not god, satan, lucifer, angels, devils or demons. But the experiences of people then and now are very similar. the book of revelations is suppose to draw humanity to one side, which appropriately enough seems good but if you are not in control of your destiny why chose it. Live the life you want not what this awareness tells you.
     
  15. Mystic-als

    Mystic-als Active Member

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    I like the way you aproach this from a "john had a Christ complex" side. I might not agree but it is refreshing to see some alternate view points and creativity in this discussion. Thank you for this.
    ProfLogic can you please go a little deeper into this idea for us.
     
  16. alexander garcia

    alexander garcia Active Member

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    Hi, As to the revelation given to John. It says it was writen by John and it is so that you may KNOW what is to be. Also a question, the word christian what does it mean? cause it is not translated into English. If it were it would not be christian it would be anointed.
     
  17. angellous_evangellous

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    "Christian" means "little Christ."
     
  18. may

    may Well-Known Member

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    Jehovah God is the revealer of secrets.Revelation adds its testimony to many other Bible prophecies, showing that Jehovah God purposes to create new heavens and a new earth. (Isaiah 65:17; 66:22; 2 Peter 3:13; Revelation 21:1-5)
    "Happy is he who reads aloud and those who hear the words of this prophecy, and who observe the things written in it."—REVELATION 1:3. yes its all happening right now ,in the Lords day.
     
  19. logician

    logician Well-Known Member

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    Revelation appears to be the work of a madman.
     
  20. ProfLogic

    ProfLogic Well-Known Member

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    Does this mean the Hebrew god became greek?
     
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