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An Opinion: Islam Is Not a Religion of Peace

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Debater Slayer, Oct 23, 2015.

  1. Deidre

    Deidre Follow thy heart

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    No, it's like saying I like the US, just not its governing laws. Sharia Law is as much a political ideology as a religious one. That aspect of Islam, I disliked.
     
  2. icehorse

    icehorse Veteran Member
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    Bingo! Hold on to that thought! Islam is NOT merely a religion, Islam IS a total ideology. The political and legal aspects of Islam are baked in - they cannot be taken up a la carte.
     
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  3. Iti oj

    Iti oj Global warming is real and we need to act
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    why? imo Christians cherry pick why can't Muslims
     
  4. icehorse

    icehorse Veteran Member
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    I wish Muslims could cherry pick - and to be fair, some can. But far too many cannot.
     
  5. DawudTalut

    DawudTalut Peace be upon you.

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    Peace be on you.
    I am sure, it would be realistic to check why a religion which claims to be religions of peace, its followers are being identified with non-peaceful acts....It should be seen why so many Muslims do not get themselves involved in hostile acts?.......It is necessary to expose why some people confuse the original peaceful teaching of Islam with miss-practices of latter people (all religions go through such phase as time passes away from its founder)

    Sorry to say the mere knowledge of Arabic is not enough in this case, as Holy Quran warns in the beginning of chapter 2.
    [​IMG]

    [2:3] This is a perfect Book; there is no doubt in it; it is a guidance for the Muttaqeen* (righteous).

    * Muttaqeen is plural of Muttaqi i.e The one who is ever on guard against sin and takes God as shield and is very regardful of duties.
    It is the door to enter Holy Quran.
    In fact it is the door to enter any true religion in its pure form, that is why we see majority of people who accept the call of a Prophet / Messenger in their times are very pious people.


    Holy Quran has another property:
    [9:124] And whenever a Surah is sent down, there are some of them who say: ‘Which of you has this Surah increased in faith?’ But, as to those who believe, it increases their faith and they rejoice.
    [9:125] But as for those in whose hearts is a disease, it adds further filth to their present filth, and they die while they are disbelievers.


    There are many Arabic knowing people who oppose Islam, and there are many people who do not have good knowledge of Arabic but they learn Islam and its details and they are peaceful; you may find them around.

    Thus knowing Arabic is good, it helps but it is not all.



    The idea you are very wrongly having is that just denying verses will throw one into torments of Hell.

    Even though it is essential to believe in latest version of Divine Book (Quran), God acknowledges the pious people of previous religions too, to whom Divine Message is not well reached or wrongly reached etc:
    Please read:

    [2:63] Surely, the Believers, and the Jews, and the Christians and the Sabians — whichever party from among these truly believes in Allah and the Last Day and does good deeds — shall have their reward with their Lord, and no fear shall come upon them, nor shall they grieve.

    [5:70] Surely, those who have believed, and the Jews, and the Sabians, and the Christians — whoso believes in Allah and the Last Day and does good deeds, on them shall come no fear, nor shall they grieve.


    The decision is in the Hand of God:
    [22:18] As to those who believe, and the Jews, and the Sabians, and the Christians, and the Magians* and the idolaters, verily, Allah will judge between them on the Day of Resurrection; surely Allah is Witness over all things.

    * (Magians are Zoroastrians)


    Pious People of the Book:
    [​IMG]

    [3:114] They are not all alike. Among the People of the Book there is a party who stand by their covenant; they recite the word of Allah in the hours of night and prostrate themselves before Him.

    [3:115] They believe in Allah and the Last Day, and enjoin what is good and forbid evil, and hasten, vying with one another, in good works. And these are among the righteous.

    Good wishes.
     
    #145 DawudTalut, Oct 27, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2015
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  6. icehorse

    icehorse Veteran Member
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    Hi Dawud,

    If I say that I'm the best chess player in the world, does that make it true? Of course not.

    You must understand that when a non-Muslim reads in the Quran that the Quran is perfect, we feel the same way - just saying it, doesn't make it true. I know you might not agree, but do you understand?

    In other words, when the Quran claims to be perfect, it makes me laugh.

    BTW - I feel the same way about any religious scripture. If the Bible claims to be perfect, I'll laugh at that too!
     
    #146 icehorse, Oct 27, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2015
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  7. DawudTalut

    DawudTalut Peace be upon you.

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  8. icehorse

    icehorse Veteran Member
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    Hi Dawud,

    I have read the entire Quran (well, I read a popular English translation). I also studied two other English translations.

    I think you miss my point. I agree that many times the Quran *claims* to be perfect. But that doesn't *prove* anything.

    Again, I suspect you don't agree with me, but do you understand what I'm saying?

    Let's try this. Suppose that you claimed to be the best soccer player in the world. Does that mean you're correct? Of course not. You can't just make a claim and have people believe it. It's the same with scripture. Scripture often claims to be perfect, but that doesn't mean I have to believe it. And it's completely clear to me that ALL scripture is seriously flawed. All scripture is far, far from perfect.
     
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  9. DawudTalut

    DawudTalut Peace be upon you.

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    Peace be on you.
    There is no harm if you please read the Quran translation with proper notes, provided above in post # 147.

    1=You are free to consider whatever you like....No compulsion.
    2=But The Sender of Quran knew the when claim of perfection is made, it has to be shown too. It has shown in various ways; in terms of unique part of its teaching, comparative teaching, preserved the essentials of previous Books, wide range of human needs addressed, prophecies, etc.

    ==Here is some comparative teaching:
    Comparative Religious Teachings on
    WAR AND PEACE @ https://www.alislam.org/jihad/warandpeace.html

    ==https://www.alislam.org/library/books/Barahin-e-Ahmadiyya-Parts1-2.pdf
    https://www.alislam.org/library/books/Barahin-e-Ahmadiyya-Part3.pdf

    ==https://www.alislam.org/library/contemp.html


    == "A distinctive feature of Islam is that its revealed Book is in a living language. Is it not curious that the languages of all other revealed Books are either dead or no longer in general use? A living Book, it seems, had to be in a living and ever-enduring language."

    "Another distinction of Islam is that its Prophet passed through every imaginable stage of human experience, starting from an impoverished and orphaned childhood and ending as the undisputed ruler of his people. His life has been documented in minute detail and reflects unparalleled faith in God and constant sacrifice in His way. He lived a full and eventful life packed with action and has left behind an example of perfect conduct in every sphere of human endeavour. This is only fitting and proper as he was a living interpretation of the Quran. and by personal example lighted the way of mankind for all time to come -a role not fulfilled adequately by any other Prophet."
    https://www.alislam.org/books/distinct/


    ==Is it not enough that Holy Quran till to date stands against all storms of opposition, not only this but guiding too.
    All the books here are written to serve Quran:
    https://www.alislam.org/books/

    On humbly hopes, time has come, you please enhance your views by reading all this important selected material.

    Also Islam should not be always seen through what people in certain area are doing on the name of Islam. They simply have gone to stages, at which they were before Islam came and lifted them up...... Lets move ahead.
     
    #149 DawudTalut, Oct 27, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2015
  10. icehorse

    icehorse Veteran Member
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    Hi Dawud,

    It's seems you have good intentions, and I thank you for that.

    But I was trained to value logic and evidence, and in general scripture - including the Quran - is self-contradictory, illogical, and provides little or no evidence.

    For example, I think that if you were to have a debate with the leaders of ISIS, you would have a hard time winning. I think that from the perspective of logic and evidence, ISIS has a very plausible interpretation of Islamic scripture. The fact that this is true points to shortcomings in the scripture itself. If the scripture was perfect, ISIS would not be able to claim guidance from it. But they can.

    (And, I'll say it again, ALL scripture has similar problems. I agree that the Bible is bad, but the Quran is worse.)

    As far as Muhammad goes, well, it seems to me that ISIS and Boko Haram and other groups like them, are doing a fantastic job of learning from Muhammad's life! And that's another huge problem for the world!
     
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  11. DawudTalut

    DawudTalut Peace be upon you.

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    Peace be on you.
    I strongly wish if you had said same words (but in positive direction) for Ahmadiyya Muslims who learned all peace and service to humanity from Hazrat Muhammad (pbuh).
    Testimony by non-Muslims:
    Specimen: http://www.real-islam.org/audio/views.html

    ===============================================================

    Terrorist are terrorist, they may assume the costume of any religion, creed and philosophy. You can search on net the terrorist groups in world using the name of Christianity.

    Terrorist can spread fear but not the love which is required and generated by any true religion.

    Religion has a fundamental aspect of service to humanity regardless of their creed. Do current terrorists (whatever label they have) do so?

    ==============================================================

    Ahmadiyya-Muslim learned services for humanity from Quran and Holy Prophet (pbuh) :
    Some images:
    [​IMG]

    Details: http://tribune.com.pk/story/207111/...dis-have-found-their-own-solutions-in-rabwah/

    ===============================================================


    [​IMG]

    Humanity First is an international charitable trust established to promote and safeguard the preservation of human life and dignity. It is a non-political, non-sectarian international relief and development agency that works with the world’s poorest and most vulnerable people, the country director affirmed.

    Read more at: https://www.rabwah.net/humanity-first-donates-cancer-scanner-to-tanzanian-hospital/

    ===============================================================

    [​IMG]
    Members of the Ahmadiyya community in Auckland raised $4000 for the ‘Royal New Zealand Foundation of the Blind’ through their annual Walkathon
    http://ahmadiyyatimes.blogspot.com/2010/03/new-zealand-ahmadiyya-muslim-community.html

    ================================================================

    [​IMG]
    Humanitarian Commitments
    • 650 water hand pumps and a further 152 new water wells were installed by the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community in disadvantaged areas regions in 2012
    • Solar panel systems were purchased to be installed in 25 African villages to provide renewable environmentally-friendly electricity in the same year
    • We have established and continue to run 39 charity hospitals bringing medical aid to some of the poorest parts of the world
    • Our free eye and dental camps treat 40,000 people per year in India and Africa
    • We have established 656 schools offering secular education in some of the poorest countries in the world
    • The attendees of one Ahmadiyya mosque in London alone helped plant 8,000 trees in the UK to help maintain the environment, while distributing 7,000 food packs to the homeless and hosted a blood drives collecting 300 units in 2012
    • We send medical and food aid as well as volunteers in response to natural disasters as well to regions suffering from the effects of war
    • We remain at the forefront of organising interfaith events to promote peace, understanding, harmony and mutual love between people of all religious, or non-religious, backgrounds
    We are heartened by the fact that the Ahmadiyya Mission has been paying heed to this primary injunction by opening and maintaining schools all over the country. In fact, in many places in our land, Ahmadiyya is a byword for school, education and learning. - President of Sierra Leone, Dr Ernest Bai Koroma
    http://www.pressahmadiyya.com/p/charitable-work.html

    ===============================================================

    [​IMG]
    ........They are an international movement which focuses “to exert a constructive influence of Islam through social projects, educational institutes, health services, Islamic publications and construction of mosques”. Their message of “Love for All, Hatred for None” is well documented. As is their charitable work, notably in Africa. The Morden-based mosque raised a fantastic £750K last year for various charities and community groups.
    http://www.klsettlement.org.uk/the-ahmadiyya-muslim-community-in-battersea/

    ===============================================================

    [​IMG]
    The Ahmadiyya Muslim Community USA launched a nationwide campaign called "Muslims for Life," at the National Press Club in Washington, DC on Sept. 1. Their goal is to collect 10,000 bags of blood in more than 200 blood drives in the month of September to save 30,000 American lives, in memory of the victims of 9/11, according to Naseem Mahdi, national vice president of Ahmadiyya USA. "We want to show our solidarity and respect for those we lost by spending this month in a way that will help save lives," Mahdi told reporters.

    Showing unusual bipartisan spirit, members of the U.S. Congress attended one blood drive at the Rayburn House on Capitol Hill on Sept. 7. Members of Congress including Rep. Jackie Speier (D-CA), Rep. Tom Petri (R-WI), Muslim Congressman Keith Ellison (D-MN) and Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee (D-TX) supported the effort by donating blood themselves.
    http://www.wrmea.org/2011-november/...9/11-victims-with-month-long-blood-drive.html

    ==============================================================
    All materiel is given with references.

    ==============================================================

    This is real true religious and Islamic spirit, learned from Allah, Quran and Prophet of Islam (pbuh).

    One hopes and prays, you get the point now. Many have gotten already.
     
    #151 DawudTalut, Oct 28, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2015
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  12. Useless2015

    Useless2015 Active Member

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    This is why Western men view women as objects. No self asteem, no selfworth.

    Its not a choice, its forced by the media. It gets in your brain one way or another. Alot of girls grow up thinking they are too ugly or fat. Alot get teased at school, and end up becoming suicidal or fall into a depression. Freedom is not always a good thing, in this case it is too much freedom. Lifes are being destroyed.

    Seems you passed a judgement on these women without knowing them. It is respectful, and this is a choice they make. Why do you think its disrespectful? It does not fit your superficial idea of a blonde bimbo with a huge rack?
     
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  13. Saint Frankenstein

    Saint Frankenstein Ov Fire and the Void
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    That has nothing to do with what I said. My point is that women in the West have the freedom to dress however they like.


    Er, every culture has standards for both men and women to live up to. It is up to you to ignore those standards and find worth within yourself. I was teased and bullied throughout my school years over things like my weight, how I dress and the music I listen to. But I didn't let that destroy my life.

    No, erasing yourself is not "respectful". Humans are social animals and a large part of how we communicate is facial cues. If I can't see your face, it's mighty hard to have a conversation with you. In those sort of cultures, it's largely not a choice, either. Those women are often threatened with violence if they do not adhere to such a severe dress code.

    Besides, why are women the ones forced to cover themselves? Why not men? A handsome man can be a distraction or a cause of lust for many women (and men). So why don't you force men to cover themselves up in such a way? Why is male sexuality being demonized, as if we're all brutes who can't control ourselves? Why are women demonized as "temptresses"? All of this really stems from the fear of sexuality, and that's a neurosis that is largely found in men, who then punish everyone else for their own deep-seated issues.
    I think you're projecting. Why are you thinking of blondes with large breasts? Hmm? Is someone a bit sexually repressed? :rolleyes:
     
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  14. Deidre

    Deidre Follow thy heart

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    It's interesting you state this, because I've read a mixture of views as it relates to this topic. For some women, it is a choice, but for others, it isn't. And that's the problem ...women should have a choice as to what to wear. Always. I understand the desire for modesty, but there is a difference between modesty and erasing a person's individuality.
     
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  15. mahasn ebn sawresho

    mahasn ebn sawresho Well-Known Member

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  16. mahasn ebn sawresho

    mahasn ebn sawresho Well-Known Member

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    Quran and its teachings does not know the word love does not know the word love
    Are you able to give me or give me three words from the Koran in the sense of love ???
    I dare you ???
    Koran defines the word murderer and fight and kill
     
  17. Useless2015

    Useless2015 Active Member

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    Yes. I am just giving my honest opinion.



    Others are not so lucky, did you consider that? There is alot of pressure on women to look a certain way. A woman is sadly mostly judged on looks. Stop defending the sexism in the West and start defending women. Women are being used as OBJECTS!!! Are you blind?!!!!


    First of all, what you showed is called a 'burqa' and its a choice. The face in Islaam doesnt need to be covered.
    That women are threatened is complete bullsh!t. So far, i heard that excuse a thousand times by anti-islamists but i have yet seen a scratch of evidence. Would you happen to have evidence for such a bold statement?

    Again ignorance because men have a dresscode aswell. Men are not allowed to show anything above the ankles. Just the same as women. Did they mention that on the anti-islam websites?


    Because i live in the West and i know that women are largely projected like objects. It is a fact not an opinion.
     
  18. mystic64

    mystic64 nolonger active

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    Thank you for that post it was very helpful.
     
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  19. Useless2015

    Useless2015 Active Member

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    84-14:

    And He is the Oft-Forgiving, Full of Loving-Kindness

    11-90:

    "But ask forgiveness of your Lord, and turn unto Him (in repentance): For my Lord is indeed full of mercy and loving-kindness."

    19-96:


    On those who believe and work deeds of righteousness, will (Allah) Most Gracious bestow love.

    3-76:

    Nay.- Those that keep their plighted faith and act aright,-verily Allah loves those who act aright.


    4-110:

    If any one does evil or wrongs his own soul but afterwards seeks Allah's forgiveness he will find Allah Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.


    15-49:

    Tell My servants that I am indeed the Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful;

    There hundreds of examples mate:)
     
    #159 Useless2015, Oct 29, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2015
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  20. mystic64

    mystic64 nolonger active

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    I was told by an Islamic Holy man that if you can't read Arabic that you can't truely understand the Quran, so I have never read it (but I have studied the history of Islam). Because the Christian Bible was translated from Arabic to Greek and then from Greek to English I understood what he ment about things being lost in translation. So anyway what you guys are doing here has been and is very helpful to me as one who is very curious about Islam.
     
    #160 mystic64, Oct 29, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2015
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