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Featured An irrefutable proof that Jesus is God

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Teritos, Aug 31, 2021.

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  1. Kelly of the Phoenix

    Kelly of the Phoenix Well-Known Member

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    Matt 10:28?
     
  2. Kelly of the Phoenix

    Kelly of the Phoenix Well-Known Member

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    I love how the Bible says humans cannot be trusted and then expects us to believe a text written by humans.
     
  3. Kelly of the Phoenix

    Kelly of the Phoenix Well-Known Member

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    How does hell fix anything?
     
  4. lostwanderingsoul

    lostwanderingsoul Well-Known Member

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    If you have a class of 20 students and 19 obey the rules but 1 causes problems by not obeying the best way to solve the problem is to remove the 1 student who does not follow the rules. God will remove those people who will not follow the rules for the benefit of all the others who are left.
     
  5. F1fan

    F1fan Well-Known Member

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    Because when your evidence is the Bible, and and any person with adequate vision can see and understand the content as being inadequate as evidence for the claims that are made FROM the content of the book itself.


    Because the "evidence" is the book itself, and the dogma inherited from previous generations. There are no facts you present that we can use to conclude your religious claims are true.


    It's not a straw man, it's a direct set of examples that demonstrate stories themselves in books does not mean these stories are true at face value. We demand evidence that stories, especially fantastic stories with supernatural elements, are true at face value. Since theists claim these stories are true, and can't provide evidence that they happened and are true, then we throw them out and give examples through human history of embellished and invented stories.

    If you are going to claim the stories in the Bible are true then you need to demonstrate they are true. Since you can't at least you can demonstrate the stories are plausible. But believers can't even do that. That's why theists fall back on faith.


    No. There's just no supernatural phenomenon observed or known to exist. Why should we assume is exists? Bible stories?


    Sorry, it's not bias to acknowledge there is inadequate evidence that a Jesus existed. It's just honest. Of course you don't like it.


    You are trying to minimize the power of evidence here. By doing so it helps you prove your beliefs in what way? Evidence needs to be available to ordinary senses and be understood without special assumptions. There's a knife at a crime scene. Is it the murder weapon covered in blood and fingerprints, or a butter knife that just happens to be present? Evidence is put together with the facts. This is not an advantage for theists trying to prove their claims because there is always going to be facts missing, namely that of any supernatural phenomenon, specifically a God. That's the problem for theists, not for observers without a bias to believe.

    Magnetism would be a better analogy. Wind is easily measured. It can even be seen when it picks up debris.

    Thus far there is nothing in reality that correlates to the word "God". This is just a word referenced in sentences and believers happen to think it means something.


    This implies a lazy God. But as I just noted there's no evidence available to human senses and reason that suggests any God exists outside of human imagination. Now some believers often believe that there are effects of Gods, like miracles. But this has no basis in fact or reason, it is another desperate need for a religious mind to find justification for their belief.

    How is any of this known? To claim knowledge means it has a factual basis. What I suspect you are doing here is bluffing that you have knowledge when really you have poorly based beliefs, but have to exaggerate it as if that fraud will work in a debate. You may fool yourself with these mind tricks but you can't fool objective thinkers who have seen these trick of language many, many times before.


    Yet you just claimed knowledge when you have none, perfect or imperfect. You have very weak beliefs and you feel compelled to embellish how well supported they are. You are choosing to lie and decide about these matters and don't seem aware you are doing it. That is the trap that religion sets for individuals who know WHAT they believe, but no idea WHY they believe it.

    No one comes to a factual and rational conclusion a God exists. People are exposed to these beliefs in their social experience and they adopt these beliefs and behaviors subconsciously. This behavior becomes a sort of operating software for social beings and they aren't terribly aware of how and why they ended up believing. It just happens as a result of social experience, much like language acquisition.
     
  6. oldbadger

    oldbadger Skanky Old Mongrel!

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    Hello paarsurrey,
    Well, you said it... a Pauline mythical God doesn't exist. And many churches are Pauline, imo.
     
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  7. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    I don't believe I need to quote all the texts in the Bible that says they wrote God's words, because I think you either know them, or know of them.
    One who sees the evidence for God, only need to do one thing - examine the texts to see if they are true.
    Like the Beroeans. Acts 17:11

    For example... Has what has been writen proved to be true?
    Yes. As Joshua said, "Not one word has failed. They have all come true."
    So when we read the texts, and we see what it says come true or is proved true, we know it is not the word of men, but the word of God.
    Hence we trust it... completely. Not as the word of men, which it isn't, but the word of God.
    (1 Thessalonians 2:13) Indeed, that is why we also thank God unceasingly, because when you received God’s word, which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men but, just as it truthfully is, as the word of God, which is also at work in you believers.

    I believe one who reads the Bible knows these things. Just check how many times the expression "the word of God", is used in the Bible.
     
  8. Kelly of the Phoenix

    Kelly of the Phoenix Well-Known Member

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    But removal only shows the teacher couldn’t deal with the root issues.
     
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  9. blü 2

    blü 2 Well-Known Member
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    The point I'm making is that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence; there are many of the former, and so far none of the latter.

    Or as FitzGerald's Omar puts it ─

    The Revelations of Devout and Learn’d
    Who rose before us, and as Prophets burn’d,
    Are all but Stories, which, awoke from Sleep​
    They told their comrades, and to Sleep return’d.​
     
  10. F1fan

    F1fan Well-Known Member

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    Right, swiftly, righteously. Sometimes God removes them in their 90's by natural causes because God is so efficient and right on top of things. Sometimes God removes a child with deadly genetic diseases before the baby can break any rules, just in case, as an example to the rest of us.
     
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  11. F1fan

    F1fan Well-Known Member

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    And you could be mistaken in your belief, yes?
     
  12. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    Yeah. The famous meme.

    But still, when you are comparing, you must compare wider in my opinion.
     
  13. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    These need to reform and become non-Pauline and non-mythical, please.
    Right?

    Regards
     
  14. blü 2

    blü 2 Well-Known Member
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    As you'll have noticed, I'm a materialist, not least because I have no reason to think that the supernatural exists in any form other than as concepts held or things imagined by individuals.

    That still leaves such interesting questions as, was there an historical Jesus?

    And how much, if any, of the NT, is sound historical reporting.
     
  15. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    You dont have to be a theist or atheist. When you give comparisons, it should be compared. Thats what I say to you.

    Your comparison was Apollonius of the 1st century, his beliefs in the second half of the first century, and the Christian beliefs of the 1st century. So what were they? And what are the records? How do you compare these records? How do you compare the beliefs?

    Thats the question. Hope you understand.
     
  16. oldbadger

    oldbadger Skanky Old Mongrel!

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    That's up to them, paarsurrey.
    Where I live we are free to believe in anything.
    But we are also free to speak our minds.

    That's an improvement ..... :)
     
  17. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    Great. So since my evidence is not solely the Bible, as it would be like taking up a book, reading it, and saying "Ah. The truth." without testing it against known facts, and observations or experience, your opinions are not observations, but opinions that are clearly biased.

    That's false. See above. Also I have presented facts. Not to you, because you evidently don't care for any. You never even asked.

    It's a strawman.

    Exactly what I mean. You've made up your mind. Are you afraid of the facts?

    Why would someone be bothered about one who just has opinions... based on nothing? That makes no sense.
    People are bothered about things that are meaningful, not meaningless.
    Virtually all scholars support the historicity of Jesus and reject the Christ myth theory that Jesus never existed.

    What is evidence, please?

    Wind can be seen? I rest my case.

    Opinion noted. Unless... do you have something more than what F1fan feels like saying?

    Perhaps when you explain what evidence is, we can go from there, but again, I have acknowledged your opinion.

    You seem to have a different definition for everything. Or do you just define things to support whatever you claim?
    Define knowledge please.

    Now you are calling me an empty headed liar. Lol. You are Buddhist? I never would consider you Buddhist. You sound more Atheist.

    I rest my case.
     
  18. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    Definitely. I don't know anything about Kelly, or anyone else, besides those I have a fairly frequent interaction with, on a more personal level.
     
  19. blü 2

    blü 2 Well-Known Member
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    I set out the comparisons in my first mention of Apollonius. It's not as if he's unknown or unremarked.
     
  20. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    Your comparison was Apollonius of the 1st century, his beliefs in the second half of the first century, and the Christian beliefs of the 1st century. So what were they? And what are the records? How do you compare these records? How do you compare the beliefs?

    Thats the question. Hope you understand.
     
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