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An interesting retrospective on a lost war

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
See The Times of Israel's Loosing the war: The rising cost of Israel's lapsed support for a 2-state solution which ends ...

There is no quick fix. To date, we’ve not found a slow fix either. But Israel needs to show itself ready and willing to be central to the effort to find one, and not to be following policies that further reduce the possibility.

Many of us, this writer emphatically included, regard a two-state solution as essential if we are not to lose either our Jewish majority, or our democracy, or both, forever entangled among millions of hostile Palestinians. Many of us, this writer emphatically included, cannot currently see a safe route to such an accommodation.

For the last time, it doesn’t matter. So long as Israel does not place itself firmly and distinctly on the side of those seeking a viable framework for long-term peace and security for ourselves and for the Palestinians, we will be regarded as blocking that framework. And even when facing an enemy so patently cynical, amoral and intransigent as Hamas, militarily strong Israel will be held responsible for the loss of life on both sides of the conflict.

We may keep on winning the battles, though they will get harder if fighting spreads to and deepens on other fronts. But we will be gradually losing the war.​
 

PureX

Veteran Member
They keep choosing a course of action that requires a total annihilation of the Palestinians to ever actually succeed. Something some of them may want to do, but as a nation they cannot bring themselves to actually do. And this is why they are stuck, even though they clearly have ALL the power. They either need to become a nation of outright murderers, or they need to become a nation devoted to peaceful coexistence. And so far, they can't seem to choose either.
 

Teritos

Active Member
How can there be peace when Jews are shooing Arabs away from their homes. And no, this is not anti-Semitism. The land has not belonged to the Jews for a long time, that is the truth. The first time the Jews came to Israel, they had the help of God, but at the second time they have only the help of the USA and Europe, so there will be no peace in this area.
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
See The Times of Israel's Loosing the war: The rising cost of Israel's lapsed support for a 2-state solution which ends ...

There is no quick fix. To date, we’ve not found a slow fix either. But Israel needs to show itself ready and willing to be central to the effort to find one, and not to be following policies that further reduce the possibility.

Many of us, this writer emphatically included, regard a two-state solution as essential if we are not to lose either our Jewish majority, or our democracy, or both, forever entangled among millions of hostile Palestinians. Many of us, this writer emphatically included, cannot currently see a safe route to such an accommodation.

For the last time, it doesn’t matter. So long as Israel does not place itself firmly and distinctly on the side of those seeking a viable framework for long-term peace and security for ourselves and for the Palestinians, we will be regarded as blocking that framework. And even when facing an enemy so patently cynical, amoral and intransigent as Hamas, militarily strong Israel will be held responsible for the loss of life on both sides of the conflict.

We may keep on winning the battles, though they will get harder if fighting spreads to and deepens on other fronts. But we will be gradually losing the war.​
Good article.

This seems to be like Northern Ireland on steroids. Killing today's terrorists is just sowing dragon's teeth. In the end, assuming one is not prepared to exterminate the entire population from which the terrorists come, one needs to do something that stops new terrorists breeding from the aggrieved population. That will require creativity, magnanimity, sacrifice of some of one's cherished goals - and huge reserves of patience under fire (sometimes literally).

It would help to have a leader that is not threatened with a criminal conviction and finds it useful to wrap himself in the flag, too.;)
 

Heyo

Veteran Member
And no, this is not anti-Semitism.
Yes, it is.
I am vehemently against the idea that the Israeli government represents all Jews. But I try to communicate that by distinguishing between Israelis and Jews.
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
The two state solution is dead. Israel will never agree to remove settlers from the occupied territories and to agree to having part of Jerusalem be the capital of Palestine. The Muslim Arabs will never stop insisting on it.
 

Colt

Well-Known Member
Once there was a group of motivated, intelligent and industrious people who bought run down homes and land in a old neighborhood. They paid a premium for the land and homes as it was a sentimental neighborhood. They fixed up the homes and reworked the land. The existing neighbors didn't really like the new citizens to begin with. Its an old family feud. So, as the old neighborhood starting looking better and the land was producing fruit, then "suddenly" the old neighbors felt cheated. They were jealous and bitter and periodically attacked and murdered the industrious bunch that simply wants to live in peace with their old cousins. As attacks persisted the newer group felt justified in establishing space between themselves and their hopelessly hatful neighbors.

The situation will remain hopelessly deadlocked until the old neighbors learn the age old lesson, "if you can't beat them, join them".
 

PureX

Veteran Member
What was that scene in Shindler's List, where the industrialist tries to point out to the nazi commandant that there is great power in choosing not to kill someone "just for today". In forgiving instead of killing. So the commandant does that, a couple times. He spares some Jewish lives in his camp just because he can. But then he gets bored, and goes back to killing them. Because it's become his habit. His 'default mode' of dealing with them. And with that choice, he must certainly have condemned himself to hell. I fear this is what is happening to the state of Israel. Responding with overwhelming violence and destruction has now become their 'default mode'. And they just won't see who they have become as a result.
 

Kooky

Freedom from Sanity
The two state solution is dead. Israel will never agree to remove settlers from the occupied territories and to agree to having part of Jerusalem be the capital of Palestine. The Muslim Arabs will never stop insisting on it.
There can still be two "states" - one sham "state" that exists as a holding place for the cheap and easily-exploitable forced labor workforce, and a colonial overlord controlling the best land and deciding where and when that workforce is being deployed for maximum benefit to the colonists.
 
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