• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

An interesting question about belief -- God and Vaccines

SalixIncendium

अग्निविलोवनन्दः
Staff member
Premium Member
I am fascinated by something that the news is barraging us with these days:
  • there are many people, most of whom are religious believers, who do not believe that vaccines are safe and effective, and
  • there are many other people who typically don't believe in gods (I am one), who are quite ready to believe in the efficacy and safety of vaccines, based on what science tells us.
Is this not odd?

This certainly doesn't encompass everyone. Believing in the safety of vaccines without verifiable evidence of their safety is foolhardy at best, whether one believes in gods or not.

There are those that are skeptics who are not ready to believe anything unless they see evidence (I am one), gods, the safety of vaccines, or anything else.

A believer is a believer is a believer, whether it's religion, science, or anything else.
 

stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
I am fascinated by something that the news is barraging us with these days:
  • there are many people, most of whom are religious believers, who do not believe that vaccines are safe and effective, and
  • there are many other people who typically don't believe in gods (I am one), who are quite ready to believe in the efficacy and safety of vaccines, based on what science tells us.
Is this not odd?
IMO:

Not odd. Your 2 points indicate that:
1) Believers are more gullible when it comes to God
2) Atheists are more gullible when it comes to Covid19
3) Humans tend to believe in something; also the Atheists

Note: Believers usually have no problems with vaccines; in the Ashram I was, many took vaccines (of course I talk about all vaccines exc. Covid19)
Note: Believers do have a point to not be gullible with a vaccine that is rushed onto the market without the usual 10-20 years of Scientific Research
Note: Atheists do have a point to not be gullible with God IF they never have had a personal experience
 
Last edited:

Clara Tea

Well-Known Member
I am fascinated by something that the news is barraging us with these days:
  • there are many people, most of whom are religious believers, who do not believe that vaccines are safe and effective, and
  • there are many other people who typically don't believe in gods (I am one), who are quite ready to believe in the efficacy and safety of vaccines, based on what science tells us.
Is this not odd?

Jews made a golden calf idol, but Moses objected. God said that belief in the idol would preclude belief in him (God).

Perhaps belief in one thing would preclude belief in another?

Many blogs and forums have banned free speech. They claim that false info about COVID could cause deaths.

So, these forums only allowed experts who were saying that we didn't need masks. Now we know that sick people spew spit (containing COVID), so masks have been necessary all along. Experts were wrong....forums were right.

Experts continue to say false things. **mod edit**

With such errors from experts, many distrust vaccines made by experts. Some say that it takes 20 years to properly test a vaccine.

Roughly 35 companies created vaccines to mitigate symptoms or kill COVID. Yet, only the first few received emergency authorization from the FDA to test them. And, most of the money is spent on those first few vaccines created (and they are not the best). Companies like Sorrento Therapeutics have preliminary results showing effectiveness even against the new strains (resistant to most other vaccines). Their stock just doubled since last week, partly due to many other uses for its research (such as spit tests). It is unclear whether patients may take more than one vaccine effectively, so it might be prudent to wait to see how the new vaccines are doing, and wait for better vaccines.

Even the Moderna vaccine only has a 94% effective rate.

Some have little faith in mankind (or science), and place their faith in what they perceive to be the creator of all.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
I am fascinated by something that the news is barraging us with these days:
  • there are many people, most of whom are religious believers, who do not believe that vaccines are safe and effective, and
  • there are many other people who typically don't believe in gods (I am one), who are quite ready to believe in the efficacy and safety of vaccines, based on what science tells us.
Is this not odd?
this is a case of where skepticism becomes unhealthy behavior not only for the skeptic but also for those who are trying to do what is right for the greater good
 

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
there is no contradiction

the body exposes your spirit to this reality
it does nothing else...

learning is why we are here
Please examine that last statement carefully. Whose actual purpose is it that we are here to learn? It certainly wasn't mine. I'm here because my parents got it on -- when they were quite young and considerably unmarried...

In any case, I see no particular reason to suppose -- as your response makes clear that you do -- that my "spirit" somehow preceeds my body, and that the only purpose for my body is to give this "spirit" a look-see at "this" reality. I have tried to remember, really, really tried, what I was feeling those few hours before I was conceived (though certainly my parents were feeling something) -- but alas, there's nothing there. It is empty, a void, non-existent.
 

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
Many blogs and forums have banned free speech. They claim that false info about COVID could cause deaths.

So, these forums only allowed experts who were saying that we didn't need masks. Now we know that sick people spew spit (containing COVID), so masks have been necessary all along. Experts were wrong....forums were right.
So who identified these "experts," and how do we validate their "expertise?" Was any one of them medically trained and licensed to practice in epidemiology? Or was their "expertise" perhaps more Biblical? Perhaps they thought a bronze snake on a pole would be sufficient to ward off the evils of COVID-19?
 

Colt

Well-Known Member
Here's one for you Evangelicalhumanist,

A lot of the people who know the Bible the best are atheists. Maybe you should read it?
I've read the Bible which represents the beliefs of religious people over the ages. I know its not perfect but can extrapolate the spiritual truths within it.

Its somewhat self deceiving to concentrate on the beliefs of others that we disagree with in order to avoid finding God on our own.

I'm religious and will get the vaccine when its available.
 

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
c) non-theists frequently assert that non-theism implies no positive beliefs, only a lack of one. A strong correlation between belief in vaccine efficacy/safety/etc. and non-theism would seem to contradict that idea, in a very specific way, possibly indicative of a larger web of interrelated beliefs that in fact are implied or likely given someone identifies as an atheist.
I have repeatedly, here in these forums, been very clear that just because I am a non-theist, I can't have any positive beliefs. I've been clear that none of us could function at all without beliefs, simply because there is far, far too much to know for us to learn it all. Beliefs allow us to get up and get on with life.

However, as I do learn some things, what I can, I can modify those beliefs. When I was little, I used to be terrified of what might be in the dark corners and hallways of the places I lived at night. I was certain there were monsters, or at least something frightening enough that I would often panic and run at top speed until I got into the safety of light and/or other people.

Guess what, I no longer believe that. Ditto for lots of things I believed when little -- Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy, Baby Jesus and the like.
 
Last edited:

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
Not odd at all. It is all about what or who you chose to be authoritative. Believers chose their holy scripture, non believers, lacking any holy scripture, chose reality (and science as an advocate for reality).
But wait a minute, don't those same believers go to the doctor when they really are sick? Scripture makes no pronouncements about cardiac by-pass surgery, so why believe it to be effective, and vaccines -- which have almost eradicted things like, polio, tetanus, rubella, hib, measles, whooping cough, pneumococcal disease, rotavirus, mumps, chickenpox, diphtheria. All of those things were common when I was young, and we were all vaccinated against them. Now, they are quite rare, thank goodness.

So there is as much (actually much more) evidence for the efficacy and safety of vaccines than there is for a cardiac by-pass. But the anti-vaxers will not take those, but will happily submit to the bypass.
 

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
Is it even true, though?

From what I have read, it seems most of the people who distrust the vaccine seem to do so for reasons that are nothing to do with religion. The most common one I have encountered is that the vaccines have been developed "too fast" and they would rather let others try them before they do.
There are lots of anti-vaxers who are terrified of all the other vaccines, too -- the ones that took a long time to develop, have been in use for decades, have nearly eradicated many illnesses, and have proven safe.
 

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
This certainly doesn't encompass everyone. Believing in the safety of vaccines without verifiable evidence of their safety is foolhardy at best, whether one believes in gods or not.

There are those that are skeptics who are not ready to believe anything unless they see evidence (I am one), gods, the safety of vaccines, or anything else.

A believer is a believer is a believer, whether it's religion, science, or anything else.
So what do you think all of that incredibly rigorous testing that all vaccines must go through is about? And the results of those tests are certainly availalable -- they are shared with the CDC and with the regulatory bodies of every government on earth that decides to use them. Further, they have been being administered at a very rapid pace, and the monitoring for safety continues. So with the millions upon millions of doses now already administered, have you got some evidence of lack of safety?

I mean, what, in the end, constitutes enough "verifiable evidence" to stop being foolhardy, as you put it?
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
Which news outlets, precisely, are spouting this rubbish? Please cite them and link to the articles.
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
There are lots of anti-vaxers who are terrified of all the other vaccines, too -- the ones that took a long time to develop, have been in use for decades, have nearly eradicated many illnesses, and have proven safe.
Yes, but there is a now also an entirely separate class of person that is specifically worried about the Covid 19 vaccines only, on account of their short development and approval time. I have seen no evidence to correlate this with religious belief.
 

Left Coast

This Is Water
Staff member
Premium Member
I have repeatedly, here in these forums, been very clear that just because I am a non-theist, I can't have any positive beliefs. I've been clear that none of us could function at all without beliefs, simply because there is far, far too much to know for us to learn it all. Beliefs allow us to get up and get on with life.

However, as I do learn some things, what I can, I can modify those beliefs. When I was little, I used to be terrified of what might be in the dark corners and hallways of the places I lived at night. I was certain there were monsters, or at least something frightening enough that I would often panic and run at top speed until I got into the safety of light and/or other people.

Guess what, I no longer believe that. Ditto for lots of things I believed when little -- Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy, Baby Jesus and the like.

Cool. I world be concerned if you still believed in Santa. :p And most religious folks are right there with you. I think it's just part of growing up to shed old beliefs in favor of new ones that are more accurate, nuanced, and informed.
 

SalixIncendium

अग्निविलोवनन्दः
Staff member
Premium Member
So what do you think all of that incredibly rigorous testing that all vaccines must go through is about? And the results of those tests are certainly availalable -- they are shared with the CDC and with the regulatory bodies of every government on earth that decides to use them. Further, they have been being administered at a very rapid pace, and the monitoring for safety continues. So with the millions upon millions of doses now already administered, have you got some evidence of lack of safety?

I mean, what, in the end, constitutes enough "verifiable evidence" to stop being foolhardy, as you put it?

You didn't clarify in the OP which vaccines you were speaking of in the OP. In this post, it would appear you are speaking of the COVID-19 vaccines.

I think these vaccines have been through enough testing and have been administered to an adequate number of people without incident to demonstrate they are safe, though there is no way of knowing if these vaccines have any long term side-effects, since they were just recently developed.

If we have verifiable evidence of something, why would it be necessary to believe?
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
I think these vaccines have been through enough testing and have been administered to an adequate number of people without incident to demonstrate they are safe,
I recently posted an article coming here from Norway
apparently more than two dozen people died
most of them were old......but hey
so am I

I think @Rival frubaled the item
 

A Vestigial Mote

Well-Known Member
you are attempting to confuse the scheme of things to the purpose of the item

oooops
Besides that one thing I can think of no other objectively applicable "purposes." Not one. Please... enlighten me if you can. What is this other purpose (or purposes) that you are thinking of? Please tell me it is more than just to populate some secret "somewhere" after this life while we all exist forever to torment one another with our relative levels of stupidity.
 
Top