An Atheist Meets God: A Cartoon

[Evangelicalhumanist]

The OP is what I thought of the cartoon, I believe I expressed myself accurately and fairly, is there something I am missing or do you just want to belittle my belief in God.

I'm not sure I understand. What you said in response to the OP was: "Aside from the fact it only looks one version of the bible and that it applies only the conservative take that bible. No its fine, its is a cartoon after all." That does not really tell me anything about what you think of God, nor how you believe.

I was not trying to belittle, and I'm sorry that you think so. The fact is that I believe differently from you, for reasons that seem valid to me, just as your reasons seem valid to you. We cannot make this difference in belief go away -- it is a fact on the ground -- so we can either discuss it or decide to avoid it altogether. I am always happy to continue a discussion, but if you'd rather not, then I'm happy respect that, too.

 

[DavidFirth]

Nor am I trying to. But I do note one thing, however -- no matter what facts I do present, you do not address it. You ignore it. And certainly that's one easy way to keep believing things, no matter what the evidence. Corrupt lawmen have put lots of innocent people away by doing just that. The Catholic Church convicted Galileo of heresy by ignoring all the evidence that he presented. They Catholic Church admitted -- only after 3 1/2 centuries -- that they were wrong!

At the end of the day, the reasons you believe as you do have very little to do with evidence. But imagine what you would say to a visiting alien, recently arrived in his faster-than-light, souped-up space zipster, who had no religious beliefs at all, because his species is all about science (that's how zhe got here). What do you think you could present to convince zhim?

I already told you that I don't care about what some scientist thinks, especially when his thinking is based on assumptions. I've read enough to know macroevolution is all just smoke and mirrors. It's guesswork. Based on assumptions. Not interested.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Isn't that called ,Penance?

An atheist can be as penitent as the next person over a fault -- but according to the Christian doctrine I understand, that won't work to avoid damnation. Even if the worst fault in his life was jay-walking. Meantime, it has been made clear to me that Christians do believe that the serial child rapist who repents and accepts Jesus (about 6 minutes after his last rape, but 4 minutes before he's shot to death by an irate father) can eventually be saved.

If I am misinformed, please enlighten me.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

I already told you that I don't care about what some scientist thinks, especially when his thinking is based on assumptions. I've read enough to know macroevolution is all just smoke and mirrors. It's guesswork. Based on assumptions. Not interested.

Yes, that much is clear. But "not interested" is still the same thing as "don't want to know."

 

[Riders]

Sense the cartoon proves the only empty stupid people in heaven are ignorant empty robotic brainwashed people and that God was hateful dipsh8t.

Itvlooks like I'd much rather go to hell with intelligent atheists then to heaven with that war like hateful unloving war like God.
Glad Im not going to that heaven.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

I actually agree but the title should be an Atheist meets the Christian Conservative God. Its a peeve of mine Atheists dismissing God in total but only willing to define God there own particular way.

Doesn't everyone define God/god "their own particular way?" With a concept as abstract, obfuscated and intangible as God, how could things really be any other way?

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

I researched it for a book, they estimate 102 billion Gods have been believed in by Humans, I doubt any Atheist has studied them all.

Is this meant to help your cause of defending some notion of "god?" 'Cause that is definitely not what I get from it. If anything, I feel that the fact that there are that many unevidenced claims of gods gives me full license to dismiss ALL of them completely.

Look at it this way... someone uses a word you don't know, so you ask them the definition. They reply with "which one? There are 102 BILLION!" Only a fool would bother using the word.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

I already told you that I don't care about what some scientist thinks, especially when his thinking is based on assumptions. I've read enough to know macroevolution is all just smoke and mirrors. It's guesswork. Based on assumptions. Not interested.

You know, I absolutely must comment further on this post.

You "don't care about what some scientist thinks," although the fact is, every bit of science ever written is backed up by all of the assumptions and evidence that supports it. Yes, there are assumptions -- that's inevitable -- but what can you not accomplish by doing the following:

• Observe (what's happening)
• Synthesize (in what's happening, are there things that seem to be like one another, caused by one another, etc.)
• Hypothesize (that's the "assumption" part, that says, can I think of any reasons why what I'm seeing ought to be true, or is it all just magic?)
• Theorize (develop a framework that includes ALL of the observed data points -- while knowing you may be missing some, or misinterpreting some)
• Test.

I put it to you that your ignorance of evolution -- which you call "smoke and mirrors" -- does not in fact make it smoke and mirrors. Your ignorance on the topic belongs to you and you alone, and has nothing to do with all the tens of thousands of people (possibly even a couple with IQs a trifle larger than your own, and almost all with more diligence, honesty and curiosity than you have) does not make the topic wrong. Your ignorance is not the ultimate answer to anything at all, except that which you do not know -- and by your own admission, don't want to know.

Evolution is certainly true. Your lack of knowledge about the work and science behind it is also true. And the latter does not deny the former.

 

[Grandliseur]

So, aside from a few moments of silliness is there anything wrong with what's presented?

.​

It is too bloody long, and bores me after 30 seconds, or so.

It contains the usual kind of arguments.
Judgment will not happen that way. The person lives now and is judged while living. On death, the summary is stored in the book of God. The dead return to nothing, they have no thoughts, nothing left. They will not know if they are disapproved; if approved (even unrighteous) , a resurrection will eventually follow.

The ironic thing is that Christ promises not to reward people for their beliefs as such; the reward or punishment is promised according to people's works. This naturally includes their beliefs, but as James point out, without works a person's faith is dead.

 

[Thief]

It is too bloody long, and bores me after 30 seconds, or so.

It contains the usual kind of arguments.
Judgment will not happen that way. The person lives now and is judged while living. On death, the summary is stored in the book of God. The dead return to nothing, they have no thoughts, nothing left. They will not know if they are disapproved; if approved (even unrighteous) , a resurrection will eventually follow.

The ironic thing is that Christ promises not to reward people for their beliefs as such; the reward or punishment is promised according to people's works. This naturally includes their beliefs, but as James point out, without works a person's faith is dead.

for the most part I agree....
I put it together a little differently

Do unto others as you would have it done unto you

people mindful of the pending life after this one
and people of denial....will perform the same axiom
to the same extent

they with intent toward heaven will continue
they without belief will not

 

[Thief]

what motivates you ...matters

 

[Skwim]

It is too bloody long, and bores me after 30 seconds, or so.

It contains the usual kind of arguments.
Judgment will not happen that way.

Perhaps not according to your particular balief, but the one in the cartoon pretty much covers the common version.

The person lives now and is judged while living. On death, the summary is stored in the book of God. The dead return to nothing, they have no thoughts, nothing left. They will not know if they are disapproved; if approved (even unrighteous) , a resurrection will eventually follow.

And these particulars can be found in book _________________ chapter__________ verse__________ .

The ironic thing is that Christ promises not to reward people for their beliefs as such; the reward or punishment is promised according to people's works. This naturally includes their beliefs, but as James point out, without works a person's faith is dead.

HOLD ON a minute. First you say

Christ promises not to reward people for their beliefs as such​

then you say

the reward or punishment is promised according to people's works. This naturally includes their beliefs.
​

Want to take a minute and decide which you want to believe?

.

.

 

[Grandliseur]

for the most part I agree....
I put it together a little differently

Do unto others as you would have it done unto you

people mindful of the pending life after this one
and people of denial....will perform the same axiom
to the same extent

they with intent toward heaven will continue
they without belief will not

That is about it. After a number of years, most settle down - like a broken record perhaps, to the identity we will have for the rest of our lives. It is as Jesus said:

for the time is at hand. 11 He that is unrighteous, let him do unrighteousness still: and he that is filthy, let him be made filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him do righteousness still: and he that is holy, let him be made holy still. 12 Behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to render to each man according as his work is. ​

 

[Grandliseur]

Perhaps not according to your particular balief, but the one in the cartoon pretty much covers the common version.

And these particulars can be found in book _________________ chapter__________ verse__________ .

HOLD ON a minute. First you say

Christ promises not to reward people for their beliefs as such​

then you say

the reward or punishment is promised according to people's works. This naturally includes their beliefs.
​

Want to take a minute and decide which you want to believe?

.

Ha! You are being difficult:

for the time is at hand. 11 He that is unrighteous, let him do unrighteousness still: and he that is filthy, let him be made filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him do righteousness still: and he that is holy, let him be made holy still. 12 Behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to render to each man according as his work is.​

Want to take a minute and decide which you want to believe?

The problem here is what do you want scriptural proof of, the condition of the dead, or judgment of these? The scriptural proof depending on your questions could make it long. But, at first, I want to keep this brief. Most would want this.
Condition of the dead:

Job 14:12,13: So man lies down and doesn't rise; Until the heavens are no more, they shall not awake, Nor be roused out of their sleep. 13 "Oh that you would hide me in Sheol, That you would keep me secret, until your wrath is past,That you would appoint me a set time, and remember me! (NJB)​

All of the following Bible translations ACV, ASV, Darby, NW, YLT use "in Sheol." Rotherham says, "that, in hades, thou wouldst hide me!"

Job 3:13-18, For now I should have lain down and been quiet. I should have slept. Then I would have been at rest 14with kings and counselors of the earth, who built waste places for themselves, 15or with rulers who had gold, who filled their houses with silver. 16Or I should have been as a hidden untimely birth, as infants that never saw light. 17There the wicked cease from troubling, and there the weary are at rest. 18There the prisoners are at ease together. They do not hear the voice of the taskmaster (ACV)​

The dead are as if in a deep sleep: See the above scriptures too:

Eccl 9: 5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not anything, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. 6 As well their love, as their hatred and their envy, is perished long ago; neither have they any more a portion for ever in anything that is done under the sun. 7 Go thy way, eat thy bread with joy, and drink thy wine with a merry heart; for God hath already accepted thy works. 8 Let thy garments be always white; and let not thy head lack oil. 9 Live joyfully with the wife whom thou lovest all the days of thy life of vanity, which he hath given thee under the sun, all thy days of vanity: for that is thy portion in life
3: 18 I said in my heart, It is because of the sons of men, that God may prove them, and that they may see that they themselves are but as beasts. 19 For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; and man hath no preeminence above the beasts: for all is vanity. 20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again. ​

Judgment
This post is already quite heavy with material. If you should like the points about judgment scripturally shown, let me know. To begin with, if you have a Bible, computer copy easiest: Matt 16:27; Rev 22:12, but read also from verse 10b. More may be said about judgment.

If you should have additional questions, or if I didn't cover it well enough, let me know.

 

[Thief]

That is about it. After a number of years, most settle down - like a broken record perhaps, to the identity we will have for the rest of our lives. It is as Jesus said:

for the time is at hand. 11 He that is unrighteous, let him do unrighteousness still: and he that is filthy, let him be made filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him do righteousness still: and he that is holy, let him be made holy still. 12 Behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to render to each man according as his work is. ​

not to digress too far.....
Johnny Cash did a song.....When the Man Comes Around
you might like it

 

[Grandliseur]

not to digress too far.....
Johnny Cash did a song.....When the Man Comes Around
you might like it

Indeed, 'when the man comes around' - then it will be too late to turn around and repent.
Hadn't heard that one before though I have listened to Johnny before.

 

[David1967]

An atheist can be as penitent as the next person over a fault -- but according to the Christian doctrine I understand, that won't work to avoid damnation. Even if the worst fault in his life was jay-walking. Meantime, it has been made clear to me that Christians do believe that the serial child rapist who repents and accepts Jesus (about 6 minutes after his last rape, but 4 minutes before he's shot to death by an irate father) can eventually be saved.

If I am misinformed, please enlighten me.

Well, I don't think that I am one to seek for enlightenment. But seriously. Not all Christian denominations have the view you mentioned but some certainly do. If there is a flaw to your statement IMHO, it is that you are overgeneralizing a very diverse religion. For instance ,A Baptist has a very different set of rules concerning the judgment or salvation of God than say a Jehovah's Witness, and they in turns would have differing views on said subject than say a Mormon and so on. Your assumption is correct if you are more denomination specific.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Well, I don't think that I am one to seek for enlightenment. But seriously. Not all Christian denominations have the view you mentioned but some certainly do. If there is a flaw to your statement IMHO, it is that you are overgeneralizing a very diverse religion. For instance ,A Baptist has a very different set of rules concerning the judgment or salvation of God than say a Jehovah's Witness, and they in turns would have differing views on said subject than say a Mormon and so on. Your assumption is correct if you are more denomination specific.

Certainly I agree with you that the various denominations and sects (and of the latter, there are very many indeed) have different views. And yet, that to me is a huge part of my argument that the only source material for all of these views -- the Bible -- is woefully inadequate.

And that inadequacy, in and of itself, speaks volumes to me -- it says no other thing than "work of man, not God."

Another point I'd like to make is in respect of your statement that Christianity is "a very diverse religion." Yes it is, and indeed so are most of the others. But that speaks to something that I also think is important: if two (or more, possibly many, many more) religious views fundamentally contradict one another about matters of fact or necessity, then at most one of them is correct -- and very possibly none of them is.

 

[The Holy Bottom Burp]

I have to admit to being tickled by theists telling me in detail what is going to happen to me when I die. Like Bill Maher says "hold on, you're just an evolved primate like me, how do you know better than me?" [paraphrase].

Ah hold on, it is because you have your holy books written by evolved primates right? Suddenly it all seems so clear!

 

[Skwim]

Ha! You are being difficult:

Difficult? All you have to do is choose between two options. And they're your options, so any difficulty rests with yourself and not me. So, want to take a deep breath and decide which you want to believe? Or are your own statements so difficult too comprehend that even you don't understand them?

The problem here is what do you want scriptural proof of, the condition of the dead, or judgment of these?

Good grief man, the problem here is that you can't even decide what you mean.

.