An Atheist Dad Left His Kids with a Relative… Who Used the Opportunity to Proselytize the Kids

[Sunstone]

What should the dad do? "His sister-in-law wanted to spend some quality time with his two daughters [ages 6 & 8] by taking them out for ice cream — why would he say no to that? So the girls went with their aunt. When they arrived, the aunt’s pastor was waiting for them…" [Source (minor use of foul language)]

What would you do, if you were the father?

 

[Aupmanyav]

Wait, till the kids grow up. They might choose to be atheists or theists. Who can say?

 

[Sunstone]

Wait, till the kids grow up. They might choose to be atheists or theists. Who can say?

Does a parent have the right to decide whether or not his or her children are indoctrinated in a religion? What do you think?

 

[LuisDantas]

What on Earth... the choice he took feels just about right to me.

Although it is a shame that it must come to that. We have become too accepting of such abuses.

 

[LuisDantas]

Does a parent have the right to decide whether or not his or her children are indoctrinated in a religion? What do you think?

I'm not sure what exactly is meant by indoctrination here. I do know for a fact that many parents and relatives are abusive in their pressure.

 

[Thana]

What should the dad do? "His sister-in-law wanted to spend some quality time with his two daughters [ages 6 & 8] by taking them out for ice cream — why would he say no to that? So the girls went with their aunt. When they arrived, the aunt’s pastor was waiting for them…" [Source (minor use of foul language)]

Damn straight.
The Aunt should have known those kids had already been indoctrinated.

Honestly though, that was pretty sneaky.

 

[Sunstone]

I'm not sure what exactly is meant by indoctrination here.

Teaching someone to accept a set of beliefs without questioning them is "indoctrination" in this context.

 

[LuisDantas]

Teaching someone to accept a set of beliefs without questioning them is "indoctrination" in this context.

I suppose that is very difficult to avoid at a certain age.

My beef is less with that than with indoctrination itself, as practiced by certain faiths. Can the sister-in-law truly have failed to notice how abusive her attitude was?

 

[Sunstone]

The Aunt should have known those kids had already been indoctrinated.

I'm not sure that's a fair or reasonable assumption based on the story as the father tells it. Apparently, he made an effort to teach his kids about atheism after their aunt attempted to indoctrinate them in her religion, but he says nothing about having attempted to teach his kids about atheism before that. So I think it's open whether he taught them much of anything about atheism before the event.

 

[Sunstone]

Can the sister-in-law truly have failed to notice how abusive her attitude was?

I'm guessing, based on stories I've heard of a few other people who did things like what the aunt did, that she is convinced of the righteousness of her actions.

 

[Estro Felino]

What on Earth... the choice he took feels just about right to me.

Although it is a shame that it must come to that. We have become too accepting of such abuses.

The problem is that these people are not absolutely aware of how grave their actions are. Totally the opposite. They think they are heroes on a mission, and they think they proselytize for those people's good. They are so blind, that even if we told them , they would never understand.

 

[Thana]

I'm not sure that's a fair or reasonable assumption based on the story as the father tells it. Apparently, he made an effort to teach his kids about atheism after their aunt attempted to indoctrinate them in her religion, but he says nothing about having attempted to teach his kids about atheism before that. So I think it's open whether he taught them much of anything about atheism before the event.

I think it's a perfectly fair and reasonable assumption. And that demonstration was specifically about a certain God concept as he said he was teaching his kids about her God not about Theism/Atheism in general.

 

[LuisDantas]

I'm not sure that's a fair or reasonable assumption based on the story as the father tells it. Apparently, he made an effort to teach his kids about atheism after their aunt attempted to indoctrinate them in her religion, but he says nothing about having attempted to teach his kids about atheism before that. So I think it's open whether he taught them much of anything about atheism before the event.

I had just reflected on the matter and reached a similar conclusion.

There is a dire need for accepting what I call the "responsibility of belief" in our societies.

By raising the matter of belief in God, the aunt pushed the father against the wall. He now has no choice other than to submit to her chauvinistic expectations or else to explicitly challenge them. Which I hope and expect that he will do.

 

[Sunstone]

I think it's a perfectly fair and reasonable assumption.

Then we'll have to agree to disagree on the issue of whether the assumption is warranted.

 

[LuisDantas]

I'm guessing, based on stories I've heard of a few other people who did things like what the aunt did, that she is convinced of the righteousness of her actions.

Voluntary insanity defense, so to speak.

How much longer will we accept such a thing?

 

[Sunstone]

How much longer will we accept such a thing?

I think if the tables were turned, and an atheistic aunt were to present atheism without parental permission to her young nieces, and to present it in an indoctrinating manner, then perhaps more people would see how out of line such things are.

 

[HonestJoe]

Wait, till the kids grow up. They might choose to be atheists or theists. Who can say?

You can’t choose to believe in gods or not, it’s an involuntary conclusion, a largely unpredictable combination of knowledge, experience and how our individual brains happen to work.

You can choose to practice a particular religion but that’s a very different concept to fundamental belief. IMO, that’s something that should be left until children are old enough to make their own choices (notwithstanding any issues of legality and safety).

I think going behind the parents back, pretty much regardless of what the difference of opinion is, would be very questionable at best. Maybe the father should teach his girls some principles such as not bearing false witness and honouring your mother and father for them to pass on to their aunt and her pastor next time.

 

[LuisDantas]

I think if the tables were turned, and an atheistic aunt were to present atheism without parental permission to her young nieces, and present it in an indoctrinating manner, then perhaps more people would see how out of line such things are.

True. But that hints of the real problem IMO.

How proper is it to expect others to deal with the consequences of the unreasonable beliefs and expectations that one may hold, even leaving aside matters of age and parental privilege?

 

[Aupmanyav]

Does a parent have the right to decide whether or not his or her children are indoctrinated in a religion? What do you think?

If the children wanted the Jesus story, nothing wrong with that. The aunt could have herself told them. But bringing in a priest who tells the children that their family will fry in hell is wrong. It became a horror story. It is not that being a Hindu I do not know the Buddha/Mahavira/Nanak/Jesus/Mohammad/Bahaullah/Mirza Ghulam Ahmad or Joseph Smith stories (now that Wikipedia is here). I have rejected God but have remained a staunch Hindu.

 

[Sunstone]

If the children wanted the Jesus story, nothing wrong with that. The aunt could have herself told them. But bringing in a priest who tells the children that their family will fry in hell is wrong and may have opposite effects. It is not that being a Hindu I do not know the Buddha/Mahavira/Nanak/Jesus/Mohammad/Bahaullah/Mirza Ghulam Ahmad or Joseph Smith stories.

If I understand you correctly then, you have no qualms about proselytizing children against the wishes of their parents.