American Gods: an appearance by Kalimaa?

[Revoltingest]

But that just lies a the heart of the problem and why it is so insulting.

The meta message it basically transmits is: These are fantasy figures and so we throw them in with the other fantasy figures. Now a person having no religion may agree with that, but for other people these Gods are not fantasy figures but very real and highly revered and demanding Respect.

Now if Americans want to do that with their own Gods Jahweh, Jesus, and Allah (no 1, 2 and 3), they can battle it out among themselves. But of course they are wary of that, because that leads to a lot of protest, so lets abuse foreign gods. Maybe it even serves a hidden purpose as Abrahamics like to ridicule other religions.

Now there is a lot of variety in Hinduism and some American Hindus may say: It brings more people to the temple and more money, and we do not revere Kali, so what do we care? And if other Hindus have a problem with that, that is their problem not ours. Some of these sects are not really part of Sanatan Dharm and do feel obliged by the same principles. And that is fine.

In Ameristan, everyone's gods are fair game.

And notice in this one that God has an Aeron chair.
Those things are expensive!

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

But that just lies a the heart of the problem and why it is so insulting.

The meta message it basically transmits is: These are fantasy figures and so we throw them in with the other fantasy figures. Now a person having no religion may agree with that, but for other people these Gods are not fantasy figures but very real and highly revered and demanding Respect.

Now if Americans want to do that with their own Gods Jahweh, Jesus, and Allah (no 1, 2 and 3), they can battle it out among themselves. But of course they are wary of that, because that leads to a lot of protest, so lets abuse foreign gods. Maybe it even serves a hidden purpose as Abrahamics like to ridicule other religions.

Now there is a lot of variety in Hinduism and some American Hindus may say: It brings more people to the temple and more money, and we do not revere Kali, so what do we care? And if other Hindus have a problem with that, that is their problem not ours. Some of these sects are not really part of Sanatan Dharm and do feel obliged by the same principles. And that is fine.

Not one Hindu on here has said they're offended by this. Kali is a goddess very dear to my heart and I'm not offended. I enjoy fantasy fiction that makes use of my deities, like the Iron Druid series. Stop being offended on behalf of others. It's rather pathetic.

 

[Cassandra]

In Ameristan, everyone's gods are fair game.

And notice in this one that God has an Aeron chair.
Those things are expensive!

This is true and look what it brought American society: A bipartisan war over things that could have been resolved if you did not feel the need to humiliate each other. That is the new American way. Do you feel it is a better way?

I can understand that people want to attack religions that themselves show little respect for other views, both religious and non-religious. That is self-inflicted hurt. You can not play boxing without accepting blows in return. Every being has an undeniable right for self-defense, which can not be taken away, by the idea of exception.

It is really hypocritical to attack and take the role of a victim when you receive a blow in return. But this seems to be the favorite position of all parties these days, because the battle has deepened the wounds to the point that people feel hurt all the time, and revenge is now taking over from self-defense.

Still even if you want to take up the fight, you do well to use distinction. To strike groups that respect your feelings and do you no harm, because: "that is just the way we are" I find more difficult to defend, and counter productive. When someone hits an aggressive person that does not shock the world. But when a violent person hits an innocent child this is seen as great injustice.

My post was not meant to suggest that Hindus should protest. Because they will get exactly the reaction you give. You live in the US, so deal with it. It will not fall in fertile soil. I just wanted to explain why it is wrong and why Hindus may not want to promote these series. But that is personal matter. That other people feel quite different about the matter is no problem. In Hinduism personal consideration is much more important than any common moral truth.

And Respect is an exceptionally high value, that has a different form from the West. In the West people have respect for people that share important views. Respect is very much bound to such agreement. And that is why disagreement on important views can lead to deep trenches between groups. And this again determines the climate.

Now Homer Simpson is an interesting figure, and a parody on the American in the sense that he is not a bad person and meaning well most of the time, but he keeps blundering and often to his own detriment, but luckily things clear up in the end because he has a loving family.

 

[Revoltingest]

This is true and look what is brought American society: A bipartisan war over things that could have been resolved if you did not feel the need to humiliate each other. That is the new American way. Do you feel it is a better way?

Freedom of speech means that some speech will be offensive.
I see no better way than having this freedom.

I can understand that people want to attack religions that themselves show little respect for other views, both religious and non-religious. That is self-inflicted hurt. You can not play boxing without accepting blows in return. Every being has an undeniable right for self-defense, which can not be taken away, by the idea of exception.

The right to insult another religion is symmetric, ie, shared by all.

It is really hypocritical to attack and take the role of a victim when you receive a blow in return. But this seems to be the favorite position of all parties these days, because the battle has deepened the wounds to the point that people feel hurt all the time, and revenge is now taking over from self-defense.

Still even if you want to take up the fight, you do good to use distinction.To strike groups that respect your feelings and do you no harm, because: "that is just the way we are" I find more difficult to defend, and very counter productive.When someone hits an aggressive person that does not shock the world. But when a violent person hits an innocent child this is seen as great injustice.

I see an enormous difference between insulting
& physically attacking another person.
The former is legal here. The latter is not.

My post was not meant to suggest that Hindus should protest. Because they will get exactly the reaction you give.

There has been protest over Apu on The Simpsons.
And there has been counter-protest, even by at least one Indian.

You live in the US so deal with it. It will not fall in fertile soil. I just wanted to explain why it is wrong an why Hindus may not want to promote these series. But that is personal matter. That other people feel quite different about the matter is no problem. In Hinduism personal consideration is much more important than any common moral truth.

And Respect is an exceptionally high value, that is very different from the West. In the West people have respect for people that share important views. Respect is very much bound to such agreement. And that is why disagreement on important views can lead to deep trenches between groups. And this again determines the climate.

Now Homer Simpson is an interesting figure, and a parody on the American in the sense that he is not a bad person and meaning well most of the time, but he keeps blundering and often to his own detriment, but luckily things clear up in the end because he has a loving family.

The Simpsons parodies everyone....
Hillbillies, cops, Scots, Brazilians, the elderly, the French, blacks, politicians,
whites, Chinese, gays, Asians, cat ladies, the rich, men, women, nerds, etc, etc.

 

[ChristineM]

But that just lies at the heart of the problem and why it is so insulting.

The meta message it basically transmits is: These are fantasy figures and so we throw them in with the other fantasy figures. Now a person having no religion may agree with that, but for other people these Gods are not fantasy figures but very real and highly revered and demanding Respect.

Now if Americans want to do that with their own Gods Jesus, Jahweh, and Allah (no 1, 2 and 3), they can battle it out among themselves. But of course they are wary of that, because that leads to protest, may even harm income, so lets abuse foreign gods in a fantasy story and call it "the American Gods"'. Maybe it even serves a hidden purpose as Abrahamics like to ridicule other religions.After all Abrahamist religions have denied for thousands of years that other Gods exists outside of their own. Those are fantasies.

Now there is a lot of variety in Hinduism and some American Hindus may say: It brings more people to the temple and more money, and we do not revere Kali, so what do we care? And if other Hindus have a problem with that, that is their problem not ours. Some of these sects are not really part of Sanatan Dharm and do feel obliged by the same principles. And that is fine.

But that just lies at the heart of the problem and why it is so insulting.

The meta message it basically transmits is: These are fantasy figures and so we throw them in with the other fantasy figures. Now a person having no religion may agree with that, but for other people

these Gods are not fantasy figures but very real and highly revered and demanding Respect.

Now if Americans want to do that with their own Gods Jesus, Jahweh, and Allah (no 1, 2 and 3), they can battle it out among themselves. But of course they are wary of that, because that leads to protest, may even harm income, so lets abuse foreign gods in a fantasy story and call it "the American Gods"'. Maybe it even serves a hidden purpose as Abrahamics like to ridicule other religions.After all Abrahamist religions have denied for thousands of years that other Gods exists outside of their own. Those are fantasies.

Now there is a lot of variety in Hinduism and some American Hindus may say: It brings more people to the temple and more money, and we do not revere Kali, so what do we care? And if other Hindus have a problem with that, that is their problem not ours. Some of these sects are not really part of Sanatan Dharm and do feel obliged by the same principles. And that is fine.

Can i ask if you have watched any if the series?

If a belief in god cannot stand up to a fantasy story that belief is not strong

 

[Cassandra]

Can i ask if you have watched any if the series?

If a belief in god cannot stand up to a fantasy story that belief is not strong

My argument is more general and it was not meant for Americans but a Hindu.
Americans do what Americans do. It is their country. I respect that, even when I do not admire it.

Lets take your argument somewhat further:
If I can not say someones wife is a slu t and his mother is a whore. their belief in them is not very strong?
Is this really a test of faith? Or is it something else?

Another question?
When is someone hurt?
When you hurt his feelings, or
when you judge that you would feel hurt if you were him?

 

[SomeRandom]

But that just lies at the heart of the problem and why it is so insulting.

The meta message it basically transmits is: These are fantasy figures and so we throw them in with the other fantasy figures. Now a person having no religion may agree with that, but for other people these Gods are not fantasy figures but very real and highly revered and demanding Respect.

Now if Americans want to do that with their own Gods Jesus, Jahweh, and Allah (no 1, 2 and 3), they can battle it out among themselves. But of course they are wary of that, because that leads to protest, may even harm income, so lets abuse foreign gods in a fantasy story and call it "the American Gods"'. Maybe it even serves a hidden purpose as Abrahamics like to ridicule other religions.After all Abrahamist religions have denied for thousands of years that other Gods exists outside of their own. Those are fantasies.

Now there is a lot of variety in Hinduism and some American Hindus may say: It brings more people to the temple and more money, and we do not revere Kali, so what do we care? And if other Hindus have a problem with that, that is their problem not ours. Some of these sects are not really part of Sanatan Dharm and do not feel obliged by the same principles. And that is fine.

Lol Americans use God in a fictional setting all the time. Miracle Workers comes to mind. Supernatural, currently in it’s like 15th season or whatever portrayed God as a lazy abusive dad figure. The Simpsons and South Park have taken pot shots at every God in existence for years. Family Guy has taken pot shots at Gods. If I remember correctly Futurama has taken a few shots at God and the Devil. The Christian protests are free marketing campaigns.
If your love of god/s is threatended by fiction, it’s not that strong to begin with imo.

 

[ChristineM]

My argument is more general and it was not meant for Americans but a Hindu.
Americans do what Americans do. It is their country. I respect that, even when I do not admire it.

Lets take your argument somewhat further:
If I can not say someones wife is a slu t and his mother is a whore. their belief in them is not very strong?
Is this really a test of faith? Or is it something else?

Another question?
When is someone hurt?
When you hurt his feelings, or
when you judge that you would feel hurt if you were him?

So you think calling people sl uts and wh ores ranks with fantasy entertainment? I dont see the link there

I consider charlie hebdo an atrocity born of the sort of sentiment you are advocating. I could never condone cold blooded murder in the name of anything, yet alone a bronze age myth.

 

[Cassandra]

Freedom of speech means that some speech will be offensive.
I see no better way than having this freedom.

It is fine with me, it is American.

The right to insult another religion is symmetric, ie, shared by all.

It is American

I see an enormous difference between insulting
& physically attacking another person.
The former is legal here. The latter is not.

This is something that Asians value differently. They often regard mental violence as more damaging than physical violence.

There has been protest over Apu on The Simpsons.
And there has been counter-protest, even by at least one Indian.

People adapt quickly in the American pressure cooker. That is one of the paradoxes of a country made up out of people of so many cultural backgrounds. It allows for less cultural difference. If this were not the case the US would disintegrate.

The Simpsons parodies everyone....
Hillbillies, cops, Scots, Brazilians, the elderly, the French, blacks, politicians,
whites, Chinese, gays, Asians, cat ladies, the rich, men, women, nerds, etc, etc.

Everyone really? Do they parodize children with cancer, pedophile rabbis, parents that lost their children, concentration camp victims?

 

[SomeRandom]

Everyone really? Do they parodize children with cancer, pedophile rabbis, parents that lost their children, concentration camp victims?

To be fair, the Simpsons are usually rated PG. Black humour is normally found in M - R rated material. Which is simply R in Americastan.
South Park has mocked children with cancer, pedophile priests and children who lost their parents. Concentration camp victims come from a real life atrocity still reverberating in society to this day. Why would anyone except maybe the KKK mock them? Even Seth McFarlane would draw a line at that and he made an entire career out of black humour that crosses the lines of human decency.

 

[Revoltingest]

This is something that Asians value differently. They often regard mental violence as more damaging than physical violence.

I hope such people never vote in our elections.
Woe unto a populace who find insults worthy of killing.

People adapt quickly in the American pressure cooker. That is one of the paradoxes of a country made up out of people of so many cultural backgrounds. It allows for less cultural difference. If this were not the case the US would disintegrate.

This "pressure cooker" strikes me as easier to deal with than a country
where on can be executed for what one believes or who one loves.

Everyone really? Do they parodize children with cancer, pedophile rabbis, parents that lost their children, concentration camp victims?

Those haven't been covered on The Simpsons....yet.
But some such parodies have been done on other shows,
My Crazy Ex-Girlfriend, Robot Chicken
I wish I could remember them all.

 

[Jainarayan]

Not one Hindu on here has said they're offended by this. Kali is a goddess very dear to my heart and I'm not offended. I enjoy fantasy fiction that makes use of my deities, like the Iron Druid series. Stop being offended on behalf of others. It's rather pathetic.

I actually got goosebumps, and thought “how cool! she’s in the flesh”, so to speak. I think Sakina Jaffrey does a great portrayal. Better than Max von Sydow’s Jesus. The only thing I can say comes close to offending me is Ancient Aliens. Even then it’s more an insult to my intelligence than an affront to my religion.

Indian movies and tv have a plethora of depictions of the gods. YouTube is crawling with them. Some are downright funny in the antics of the gods. But you can’t believe for a moment they’re disrespectful.

I think a big difference between the western and eastern approaches to deities is that the eastern view is so much more laidback and reverent in its own way. The western view is uptight. Compare images of the Hindu deities with their serene and benevolent faces and poses, and the sad, suffering and almost tortured looks of saints.

 

[Jainarayan]

Now there is a lot of variety in Hinduism and some American Hindus may say: It brings more people to the temple and more money, and we do not revere Kali, so what do we care? And if other Hindus have a problem with that, that is their problem not ours. Some of these sects are not really part of Sanatan Dharm and do not feel obliged by the same principles. And that is fine.

“Lighten up Francis”.

I revere Kali, as I do all the other gods, and I’m not offended. I mean, for all your sensitivities, “do you even Hindu, bro?”

Besides, this was a thread about a tv show, of which you’ve seen only one episode, not a religious debate. Especially since this is not a debate area. If your jimmies are so rustled and you want to be offended for a religion that, to the best of my knowledge, you don’t even follow, start a thread in a debate area.

 

[Jainarayan]

My argument is more general and it was not meant for Americans but a Hindu.

And a Hindu answered with approval of the show.

 

[Cassandra]

I hope such people never vote in our elections.
Woe unto a populace who find insults worthy of killing.

Who speaks of killing? There are less drastic measures.
Do you think that Americans being able to insult each other makes them less prone to shoot?

This "pressure cooker" strikes me as easier to deal with than a country
where on can be executed for what one believes or who one loves.

Compared to the worst, America is the best!

 

[Revoltingest]

Who speaks of killing? There are less drastic measures.
Do you think that Americans being able to insult each other makes them less prone to shoot?

People generally use discretion, & don't carry the right of speech to every possible extreme.
While there can be violence resulting from this, I say the effects of government limiting
speech is a cure worse than the disease. I wouldn't allow them the power to control
what we may say about religions

Compared to the worst, America is the best!

It's a work in progress.
But I see no other place I'd want to move to.