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American Culture versus Muslims

Djamila

Bosnjakinja
I want you all to feel free to discuss this from whatever angle you like. Me, I'm going to share a couple of examples of American influences. I don't think they're good or bad, I just think it's interesting that they exist in Bosnia.

Firstly, Bosnia's gossip magazines follow Americans quite a lot. AZRA (Bosnian Muslim women's name) follows them more than do Bosnian artists. You look here and two of the biggest female celebrities in Bosnia is little blurbs on the side.



This issue of Glamur & Stil (Glamour and Style) features Beyonce Knowles, an American singer, and Emina Jahovic, a Bosnian singer. The headline below them reads: "Beyonce versus Emina. Who is better, and why"



And this is the oddest of all. A Bosnian Muslim rap video.

Edo Maajka - Znas Me

So odd. :D It has dancing bimbos, a male trying to belly dance, sheep for the Bajram slaughter, and even a picture of Yugoslavia's president grabbing Miss Sarajevo's boobs in the 1970s. Yeehaw.
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
America has it's flaws, like every country, but I think one of our strengths is that American ethnic groups tend to get along here much better than ethnic groups in many countries do. If we could export the knack we have for getting along, I'd be all for it. It would be a better export than, say, our lousy mass market beer.
 

Hacker

Well-Known Member
Hi Djmalia,
I'd like to address the flaws about our American Popular culture and one of them is Rap in our society especially the lyrics and music videos being portrayed. Today, rap continues to be a prominent and important aspect of our culure. It origionally emerged as a way for inner city youth to express their every day life and struggles. Rap lyrics are mostly about poverty, crime, violence, racism, poor living conditions, drugs and corruption. However, there ARE some performers who set a positive example for their followers like Kurtis Blow rapped in a video for the March of dimes. Hoever, there are serious problems that many within the rap subculture believe are being ignored by mainstream america. I think that many of these lyrics and vidoes are detrimental to our youth because they think it's cool, and the beats of these rap songs are "catchy" but the message that is being conveyed (I believe) is setting the wrong example of how teenagers should spend their time having fun, like drinking, sex, partying, etc..It's not ALL rap, it's also in some of our music.

Mainstream media in my opinion is another problem, there is too much emphasis on what's being presented on television and the message is not always positive. A lot of women have a distorted view of what beauty is and become obssessed with "thiness." I believe that many of the actresses are "too thin" and it's a shame that many of the youth of America today are brainwashed into feeling obligated or the desire to look that way, because after all, everywhere you look(even in supermarkets) there are magazines everywhere of stick thin women looking beautiful etc etc. I may update this post but this is a start.

GOod topic Djmalia, and I will post later of the positive aspects of America too, but I felt the need to vent about that, LOL.
 

Djamila

Bosnjakinja
Positive aspects of America, well I can name a few.

American television programs, such as The Simpsons and other sitcoms, are popular around the world and they do, subconsciously, present a different dynamic of male-female relations and these sorts of things. So that's always positive.

The only real cultural influences that come from America that I don't appreciate is the complete focus on individualism at the expense of everyone else, and the lack of respect for sex.
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
I think I understand what you mean by individualism, but I'm curious what you mean by a lack of respect for sex, Djamila.
 

Djamila

Bosnjakinja
Well, you've read my Women's Rights thread, and you know how it is in Bosnia in terms of using women and women's sex appeal to sell products.

But you watch a Bosnian soap opera, or a Bosnian movie, or anything of this nature - and firstly, the scenarios in which sex takes place are completely different. Secondly, what is actually shown on screen is even more different.

Sex is never presented as just... something to do, or as something that just happens when people are dating.

The most explicit depiction of sex I've ever seen in movies are those dealing with war rapes. The most explicit I've ever seen in a normal, peace-time movie was from Gori Vatra. There is a scene where the little, blonde Muslim girl is making out with her boyfriend on a park bench.

And she's on her back, legs wrapped around him, and they're both still dressed, and he says: "Oh please, just a little bit."

And she hestitates, and says, "Oh, no... I don't think..."

He says: "Oh, come on. Just a little, my darling."

And she says: "If I get pregnant, you'll have to marry me!"

He says, "Of course!"

She says, "No, really. If not, my father would kill you!"

And he says, "If I had the chance to marry you and didn't, I'd kill myself."

And then the scenes over. That's as explicit as I've EVER seen. lol
 

Djamila

Bosnjakinja
And, by the way, a few scenes later they're in her house. She's fully dressed, he's in his t-shirt and underwear, and she's washing his feet in a tub of warm water (It's a thing here like... taking ginseng in your tea in the west or something, it's just a habit people think is good for health). At this moment, her father walks in - doesn't say a word.

The two of them stand up, silence. The boyfriend says, "I love Elsa, Sir. I want to marry her."

And he walks over to him and says, "Give me the jacket" (His jacket was on the chair, and the boyfriend picked it up in nervousness)

The boyfriend gives the jacket, and the father doesn't even blink and says, "Take her away, and tell her never to come back here again."
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
I fear for the rest of the world if it ever adopts the American attitude that open sexuality combined with a shoddy sexuality education is the best way to go.
 

kateyes

Active Member
I think it is important to remember that explicit sex scenes haven't always been the norm in the US--well into the mid 1960s TV and Movies didn't even show married people sharing a bed much less having sex. It would be interesting to revisit this issue in Bosnia 15 or 20 years from now. As the country becomes more (I am not sure of the word I want here) urbanized/industrialized/capitalist--you may experience a shift in those trends. I actually think the US is becoming more conservative on these types of issues--and you are seeing far less that you did in the 1980's and 1990's. Certainly the most successful movies and TV shows of the last decade have been about less sex and gratuitous violence.
 

Faint

Well-Known Member
tlcmel said:
I'd like to address the flaws about our American Popular culture and one of them is Rap in our society especially the lyrics and music videos being portrayed...
Please explain how rap is worse than other genres, specifically rock, alternative, electronica, and country.
tlcmel said:
Mainstream media in my opinion is another problem, there is too much emphasis on what's being presented on television and the message is not always positive. A lot of women have a distorted view of what beauty is and become obssessed with "thiness." I believe that many of the actresses are "too thin" and it's a shame that many of the youth of America today are brainwashed into feeling obligated or the desire to look that way, because after all, everywhere you look(even in supermarkets) there are magazines everywhere of stick thin women looking beautiful etc etc.
Some women actually eat right and work-out. Yes, the anorexic look is a problem, but most of the women on magazine covers are not underweight.

Djamila said:
He says: "Oh, come on. Just a little, my darling."

And she says: "If I get pregnant, you'll have to marry me!"

He says, "Of course!"

She says, "No, really. If not, my father would kill you!"

And he says, "If I had the chance to marry you and didn't, I'd kill myself."
Hmm. Actually, I find this far more disturbing than casual sex being portrayed on WB dramas.
 

Capt. Haddock

Evil Mouse
I never imagined that a fault of American culture is that it’s not puritanical enough.

I suppose it’s all relative.

I think the attitude to sex in this country is schizophrenic. On the one hand, it’s all out there and anything goes. On the other hand, people still have really quaint attitudes when it comes to talking about sex or exposing sexually charged imagery, and you get an almighty kerfuffle if they show a nipple on television or if this or that actress wears skimpy or revealing outfits.

As for the popularity of American pop culture in foreign lands, it’s a phenomenon that has been going on since at least World War II, and I think it has to do with the fact that the entertainment industry here is simply larger and higher budget than those elsewhere, so it can put on a better show.

Perhaps also because this country is so culturally diverse, the themes of its pop culture are designed to have a universal appeal (or to stick to the lowest common denominator, depending how you want to look at it.)

It’s not just American pop culture that gets exported to unlikely places. Indian bollywood films are very popular in the Middle East and Africa. Latin American soap operas are hugely popular in Russia and other eastern European countries. Who knows what it is about overacted Venezuelan melodrama that appeals to Russian babushki.
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
Captain Haddock said:
I never imagined that a fault of American culture is that it’s not puritanical enough.

The trouble with American Puritanism is that it sees sexual morality as only a dichotomy between anything goes on one end and sexual repression on the other. What it overlooks is responsible sexuality.
 

Hacker

Well-Known Member
Faint said:
Please explain how rap is worse than other genres, specifically rock, alternative, electronica, and country.
The cuss words, the lyrics pertaining to use of guns and shooting others, but I didn't say all rap was bad. Have you ever listened to Tu pac, I did in high school, but now that i'm older, I'm more aware of how detrimental it can be to our youth. I never hearn cuss words in rock, alternative etc as much as rap.
Some women actually eat right and work-out. Yes, the anorexic look is a problem, but most of the women on magazine covers are not underweight.
Yes SOME women do, I never said ALL women are anorexic...and I don't agree with you about how MOST(notice the word MOST)women don't look too thin on magazines...if you were a women you would understand how hard it is to maintain that image. I'll admit, I used to have issues with this(being that thin) and I know how hard it is to maintain it's VERY hard, but thank goodness I'm not like that anymore.
 

Faint

Well-Known Member
tlcmel said:
The cuss words,
No other genres use cuss words?
tlcmel said:
the lyrics pertaining to use of guns and shooting others,
As opposed to, say Johnny Cash "I took a shot of cocaine and shot my woman down", or the Beatles' "Bang Bang Maxwell's silver hammer came down upon her head" etc. Find me an "innocent" genre of pop music.

tlcmel said:
but I didn't say all rap was bad. Have you ever listened to Tu pac, I did in high school, but now that i'm older, I'm more aware of how detrimental it can be to our youth. I never hearn cuss words in rock, alternative etc as much as rap.
Have you ever listened to the Beatles? Rolling Stones? U2? Aerosmith? I love it all (rap included)...but if you're going to single out some music for having being "bad" content do try to be consistent.
 

Hacker

Well-Known Member
Faint said:
Have you ever listened to the Beatles? Rolling Stones? U2? Aerosmith? I love it all (rap included)...but if you're going to single out some music for having being "bad" content do try to be consistent.
Yes I have and I guess you never heard of the rap music that I'm referring to, the kind that is not on the raido....it's WAY worse! Don't get me wrong I do like SOME rap songs, but i'm referring to the stuff that's not allowed on the radio, so the reason why I said rap because it's WAY worse than anything I ever heard of! We will agree do disagree.:cool:
 

Flappycat

Well-Known Member
The urban world is a culture unto itself, I think. People in Miami talk about Chicago like it's a part of their own neighborhood, for example. To say that this is a phenomenon in the "Muslim world," I think, would be inaccurate. These people may identify more with areas with similar population densities, similar problems, similar degrees of air pollution, similar exposure to violent crime, and similar social organization than they ever possibly could with their own countrymen.
 

ayani

member
anyone ever read the publication "adbusters"?

http://www.adbusters.org/home/

it's a pretty critical take on advertising, consumerism, capitolism, and pop culture. can't say i agree with every idea they express, but it's an interesting read none the less.
 

Djamila

Bosnjakinja
Flappycat said:
The urban world is a culture unto itself, I think. People in Miami talk about Chicago like it's a part of their own neighborhood, for example. To say that this is a phenomenon in the "Muslim world," I think, would be inaccurate. These people may identify more with areas with similar population densities, similar problems, similar degrees of air pollution, similar exposure to violent crime, and similar social organization than they ever possibly could with their own countrymen.

But crime is something extremely rare here. It's not like we have muggings or murders as in the West. They happen, but one or twice a year at best.
 

Flappycat

Well-Known Member
Djamila said:
But crime is something extremely rare here. It's not like we have muggings or murders as in the West. They happen, but one or twice a year at best.
And the murder rates aren't as bad in the West as they're made out to be, per population density, but this is beside the point. The point remains that overdeveloped areas create an environment and atmosphere like no other. I think that it is less Western culture infringing on yours and more a natural consequence of urbanization. Urbanization, itself, is a natural consequence of an expanding population. Drive through the mean streets of Tehran, and then drive through those of New York; if you aren't highly familiar with the landmarks, you won't be able to tell the difference.

Also, like it or not, rap is a music of the city, for it has spread like lightening through the urban centers of the US and outward to many other regions worldwide. It may not usually be a nice form of music (believe me, some of the things spouted by such crunk bands as Three 6 Mafia are enough to give an old lady a heart attack), but it seems to resonate so strongly with people living under certain circumstances that it has spread like wildfire o'er the world.
 
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