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America Is Already There

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
I mean...I'm Australian. Of course it can be done, there are plenty of places already doing it. But it's not about being 'done in capitalism' or 'done in socialism'. Those are ideological window dressings. It's about providing quality healthcare to citizens.



Australia is not what you'd call a socialist country, is it? But we have far more social programs...and incidentally our health system runs at a far lower cost per capita. If you don't like our model and mix, there are plenty of others to choose from, most of which are cheaper than the US model, and lead to better objective outcomes in terms of healthcare.

I lived in Australia for a bit. Don't tell anyone I was an illegal alien. I was impressed by the schools, the welfare, the health system. And, at the time, the government was able to balance the budget. Housing was cheap, but what the hell was it with sneakers? I felt that if I wanted to buy a pair of sneakers I'd have to take out a loan.

My wife has family that lives in Sydney. That was back in '95. I don't know how things have progressed but I think I've heard they no longer are able to balance the budget.
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
That's about as valid as saying 'OK, so then let's admit socialism is already here, right? We want to keep it around, right?'

But in case it's required, let me be clear about MY position (I can't speak for others).
All countries are running some mixture of market-driven capitalism, and socialism. The mix varies greatly, but I can't think of any country running a pure-market capitalism without interference. Nor can I think of a socialist country not involved in market capitalism.

Pure capitalism and pure socialism are ideological positions, but pragmatically neither truly exist (at least, for all intents and purposes).
So no, I'm not suggesting the US throws out capitalism and becomes an idealistic socialist utopia.

What I'm suggesting is that the aversion to the word 'socialism' and the manner in which capitalism and socialism are mixed in the USA is leading to sub-optimal outcomes for US citizens.

Ok, some seem to have a similar aversion to capitalism. I'd guess perhaps we are just coming at it from different sides.
 

lewisnotmiller

Grand Hat
Staff member
Premium Member
I lived in Australia for a bit. Don't tell anyone I was an illegal alien. I was impressed by the schools, the welfare, the health system. And, at the time, the government was able to balance the budget. Housing was cheap, but what the hell was it with sneakers? I felt that if I wanted to buy a pair of sneakers I'd have to take out a loan.

Ha! Yes, it's pretty ridiculous. We import them from the States...who has imported them from Vietnam.
That's really just if you want the brands, of course, but there are a few things like that here. Ultimately we're somewhat isolated still, so there is still the possibility for things to evolve a little differently here to elsewhere. We're much more part of the world than we used to be, but still...

My wife has family that lives in Sydney. That was back in '95. I don't know how things have progressed but I think I've heard they no longer are able to balance the budget.

It depends. I think that has gotten harder for the world, and we are suffering the normal Baby-Boomer aging problem much of the Western world is facing. In relative terms I think we've done well. We got through the GFC without too much drama, and whilst COVID has been a major problem (particularly in Victoria, where I live) the impact is far less than many other countries.
The budget would have been in surplus this year, but it's been a somewhat challenging year, to put it mildly.

On Sydney, it's an okay place to live, depending on what you can afford. But traffic and housing prices are insane.
Melbourne is slightly better, but has the same basic issues with both of those.
 

lewisnotmiller

Grand Hat
Staff member
Premium Member
Ok, some seem to have a similar aversion to capitalism. I'd guess perhaps we are just coming at it from different sides.

Yes, there is some truth to that.
I left teaching and went into private industry. I've also owned my own business. I'm a capitalist, by any measure. I simply think it has it's limitations and issues.
 

It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Thats why I'm wanting to leave America.

I've got a song for you that says it all. "Don't want to be here no more. It's time to move along"

It's also a pretty good song that begins by laying down a 39 second rhythm groove that crackles, plus a tight guitar solo - a favorite of mine for years before I gave up on America and left it:


There ain't no bread in the bread box
Because we ain't got no dough
It's seems like we ain't got enough time to go fool around no more
You been working so hard for oh so long
What do you got to show?
Open up your eyes little darling
Lets pack up your things and go
Open up your eyes little darling
Don't want to be here no more
Open up your eyes little darling
Been here for 'bout too long
Open up your eyes little darling
It's time to move along
 
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