AMA, Your friendly neighborhood Theistic Satanist

[Mindmaster]

Hey Mindmaster, I was just wondering, have you ever evoked Satan to physical appearance?

Also, What do you think of E. A. Koetting, are your beliefs close to his? (He's on youtube btw)

Divine beings (what we tend to call gods, angels, demons, spirits) don't have a physical body like you or I, but they can be seen. It basically seems like you are "imagining" them, but the difference is they are not under your control. Also, there are "two" forms I guess you would say of these beings... As you can imagine a spiritual being probably has no actual use of a physical form, so what they really look like is energy blobs -- but, apparently your brain hates that and has to trick them out in some anthropomorphic form. As time goes on, you learn to see both but you might see one or the other initially... I mostly saw them as simultaneous -- that's to say... if I focused on nothing much I would see them in a person sense, but if I focused in I could see the "energy blob" or basically disembodied consciousness ball that they were. I've only ever experienced Satan in this "ball" type manner. But, again as time has gone on I've learned to be ok with whatever expression they feel like sharing with me.

I'm unsure of Koetting's religious beliefs from watching some of his material, but I've had friends whom have said that his material is basically just recording of old ceremonial magic methods. These methods ARE NOT typically used anymore -- they are the model T's of magic. If you're interested in magic Chaos is the place to start everything else is just wasted time. If you are religious then you can use something called theurgy which is probably even easier... I feel that most of what he discusses is probably available for free all over the Google-net... so I can see no reason to pay...

 

[RedDragon94]

Divine beings (what we tend to call gods, angels, demons, spirits) don't have a physical body like you or I, but they can be seen. It basically seems like you are "imagining" them, but the difference is they are not under your control. Also, there are "two" forms I guess you would say of these beings... As you can imagine a spiritual being probably has no actual use of a physical form, so what they really look like is energy blobs -- but, apparently your brain hates that and has to trick them out in some anthropomorphic form. As time goes on, you learn to see both but you might see one or the other initially... I mostly saw them as simultaneous -- that's to say... if I focused on nothing much I would see them in a person sense, but if I focused in I could see the "energy blob" or basically disembodied consciousness ball that they were. I've only ever experienced Satan in this "ball" type manner. But, again as time has gone on I've learned to be ok with whatever expression they feel like sharing with me.

I'm unsure of Koetting's religious beliefs from watching some of his material, but I've had friends whom have said that his material is basically just recording of old ceremonial magic methods. These methods ARE NOT typically used anymore -- they are the model T's of magic. If you're interested in magic Chaos is the place to start everything else is just wasted time. If you are religious then you can use something called theurgy which is probably even easier... I feel that most of what he discusses is probably available for free all over the Google-net... so I can see no reason to pay...

Thank you, you sound like the real deal.

 

[Mindmaster]

Do you have any role models for your beliefs that you learn from?
Have you ever been harassed or threatened for your beliefs?
Does it annoy you when people assume you like certain types of art because of your beliefs?
Which non-Satanic religion do you see as closest to your own?

I have shamelessly borrowed from anyone I thought had a good idea. I've studied most of the chaos magic authors for constructing the practical site of my rituals, but I have borrowed a lot from the Demonolatry crowd as well. (Really, I love the demonic enns... and their rite format is great for theurgic magic...). One of the books I read early on was Stealing the Fire from Heaven by Stephen Mace. There is a bit of Crowleyianity in there, but past that there are all sorts of magic cheats that have helped me. I read _EVERYTHING_. I am always looking for new ingredients, mostly because of what I read in that book.

I'm not really too annoyed... Is it my fault that they think Satanism is as their religion says, or is it theirs? Bigotry and hatred is the crime of the person who commits them... Not the victim. I basically approach the subject with the idea that maybe they can learn in the future to understand, but if not I am happy to leave them where they be. Some people are happy within the cloistered walls of their religious thought, and if it makes them feel safe who am I to judge? That happiness or security is their right just as it is my right to forsake all of that and do reckless sorcery and inviting gods inside of myself for a chat. I guess in a way I just don't expect those folks to understand because it is so outside their reality tunnel, and I had once been there myself -- I am here by a string of conspicuous events. Anyway, I have been accused of all sorts of things from being a bad influence to being an edgy basement dwelling goth. I just tend to keep my public profile low... I'm not seeking to agitate others, nor deal with their anger...

People assume you like certain music and certain art styles, but I personally like all sorts of music from nearly any time zone with the exception of modern jazz and some country/gospel. (I just don't get into it... lol) Anyway, nevermind the edgelord masters -- Satan is just fine with whatever music you enjoy and whatever art you like... even if that art is My Little Pony posters... Judging people by such trivial things is exactly the sort of concept I am religiously against. It matters what one is doing and what one strives for to me more than anything.

Hmm, tough question but I definitely see parallels in Advaita and some of my thoughts as well as some of the philosophical points of Tibetan Buddhism. I don't consider myself really deeply educated on the eastern religions, but the more I read the more I find parts of my system in theirs. Anyway, no one has a universal monopoly of the truth -- it pops up everywhere. Practice wise, there are a lot of traditional witches doing what I do (not the neo-pagans derived from Jerry Gardner), and some neo-shamanistic practices are close. (Just trying to remember who I have shamelessly stolen from... haha)

 

[Mindmaster]

1) The perception of Satan as a type of Prometheus is one I am familiar with. Some claim one of Satan's names is Enki to support this. Is there a book which inspired you to believe this? Whether yes or no, what other reasons do you have to believe the above about Satan?

2) You mentioned that your religion is primarily a result of personal experience. That you have no "holy book", simply the teachings given to you by the supernals you work with. My question is, how does the knowledge come to you? Do you receive visions? Do you hear voices either audibly or internally? Do you receive data in bursts like a download? If so, does it come in bursts through the day, a trickle or all at once?

3) What form, physical or image in your mind's eye, does Satan appear to you in, if any?

I think mostly I am using that in a dramatic sense or as a type of metaphor, but I really think Prometheus is an interesting an admirable figure as well. I definitely see the relations between Enki and Satan from a historical perspective. If we contrast various apocryphal texts and Sumerian mythology both agree that man was created by gods to be slaves. (Those texts are conveniently omitted from various holy scripture books, I wonder why... lol) That doesn't exactly make me want to follow those gods, but Enki attempts to save humanity in their flood myth, and maybe Satan is doing the same now. Maybe he is the same guy, and maybe that is the better choice. Unfortunately, other than a few cookie crumbs it's just hard to get to know Enki as easily as Satan. I prefer to look at Enki as a window into Satan's nature, and then meditate on that as a sort of focus. The problem with all of these texts is they are basically written by the historical victors -- they are not the whole truth, but rather the truth as those people wanted you to know. That's why I don't entirely rely on them. Hence, I find it troubling to conceive of Satan in these contexts because again -- biased reporting...

Generally, these are telepathic processes for me at this point for lack of a better analogy. I meditate and open the hot line... Sometimes I receive a lot of information sometimes I receive nothing. There are occasionally visuals involved, but I rarely physically hear or see things. I guess the best way to explain it is trying to drink from a fire hose... of thought... Again, my practices are mostly ripped off because very few ideas are new under the sun. There is no reason to reinvent them, but I have modified various things due to intuitions I've received. As time goes on, I find more and more of this "antenna" is active in my normal waking day. I don't always have to be meditating to gain information... Basically, to be a Theistic Satanist is a full time 24/7 job -- you have to continually apply rationality to a myriad of apparently irrational subjective information -- often I will just find myself scribbling something down because it doesn't make sense to me yet, but may much later. These states are pretty difficult to maintain in everyday waking consciousness, so if you are having trouble that way don't worry about it. lol

I've addressed the "appearance" issues in the previous questions somewhere... But, Satan I generally see in the "blob" mode because I reject the cartoon variety devils. Generally, I do not need to see them to speak so whether they "show themselves" to me or not is irrelevant in most cases.

 

[Mindmaster]

Doesn't theist imply you believe in the corporeal being Satan?

I think corporeal is bad way of saying it, since I generally perceive spiritual beings as basically pure consciousness. From their perspective, I would probably find the physical form very limiting and unnecessary... I guess... I don't know, maybe one day I will ask either Satan or another spirit being what they think of this. I just haven't really decided to investigate this...

 

[Mindmaster]

Do you believe this force is naturally occurring, and is it among humans only?

I have to use the bacterial analogy to explain this weird concept... For me:

1) The universe is linked consciously as one thing. It was _one_ thing... This thing reproduced asexually by dividing... BUT, it is not completely divided... The pieces which came apart didn't forget how to speak with one another directly... They just became semi-autonomous. Hence some have physical bodies, and some don't. It is merely a convenience to us that we think everything should act physically.

2) Thus, in a way... Satan and me are the same entity, but also we are different... Mi familia, however.. (He is definitely and older spirit than I) This force is present in anything that lives... I am even connected to you even if that connection path remains obscure. We always have this connection, but it is not exactly encouraged to be used in modern society. People seem to be taught it isn't there. or that they have no right to use it. I guess, we can speculate on a number of reasons why that is. Maybe to keep humans divided against themselves, or subjugating their spiritual birthright to some other... If this concept were realized humans would naturally stop being cruel to one another, but apparently that idea does nothing for the powers that be.

There is ultimately only "one divine" however that "one" is probably dead... Thus, I've decided to follow in the path of a master and learn the trade.

 

[Mindmaster]

Do you consider atheistic Satanism, to be actually Satanism?

On a technical basis no... It has more to do with clippings from Ragnar Redbeard, Ayn Rand, Machiavelli, and Nietzsche than anything original or even satanic -- and what IS satanic about it is largely ripped from Christian heresies. It is a philosophy, but not a religion. In a practical reality... I think many Theistic Satanists come from LaVey after learning that it is not working for them personally, and I guess it remains valid to me as a sort of stepping stone. There is definitely an age limit in LaVey Satanism.... That age tends to be hovering around 21-25...

I also think the fascist-type beliefs that are grafted into it are probably not good for ones overall disposition. I think the ultimate judge of how good a path is is how good of a person it makes you. I can't imagine that being a hedonistic and completely self-centered individual is helpful in the long run for anyone. All it seems to be good for is cultivating one to become a supreme douche-bag... And what use is that?

Ultimately, these are sort of my reasons for abandoning it myself. I guess that is all I can speak for..

 

[Mindmaster]

Does this spirit take over individual minds or does this spirit respect and preserve individual minds, or mixed? Is this spirit like an egregore, an archetype, Djinn/id projection, all, some combination of these, or none? Is this spirit fixed in its mode of operation, or can it adapt, change, and evolve? Does this spirit have a will of its own?

I have to just speak for myself or my perceptions here, YMMV:

Largely, it is a chicken-egg problem. But, ultimately it doesn't matter -- there is one ultimate consciousness that for whatever reason decided it needed to cut itself into infinite pieces and henceforth you and I, and Satan now are things. Spirits are basically working toward helping others to expand their own experiences and raise their own knowledge. It's pretty easy to get a hold of your favorite god or demon if you are willing to place all the effort required -- it helps them to help you. They are conscious, so they have their own will and own concerns...

Can we create a consciousness by "splitting our own" into an egregore? Yes, we can... Thus, you can deceive yourself really nicely if you are hoping for too much... You can create those tuplas or whatever and really take a good walk down the primrose path of folly. The worst demons are always the ones in our own heads... Hence all of my previous mentions of my path being the fast and dangerous path... Crazy town is a possible destination if one is not semi-unattached to the results. If you're attempting to become the avatar of the apocalypse you are probably hitting this crazy town problem more frequently, but if you are just a curious explorer who is happy either way with what is received then maybe you have a shot.

I probably had a more archetypal view in the past as it was the only way I could graft my spiritual understanding to my rational process and not be completely inconsistent. Experience with various beings, and moving through time have eroded that perception. I still think it is more useful to model it this way however than to flatly and skeptically reject it all -- if that is what you can work with.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

On a technical basis no... It has more to do with clippings from Ragnar Redbeard, Ayn Rand, Machiavelli, and Nietzsche than anything original or even satanic --

Almost a derail, but I have been reading a lot on and of Machiavelli recently. He and Nietzsche would have to be in the top 10 in terms of misunderstood and misused historical figures...do you have any view on how or why they have been used as informative/inspirational to atheistic Satanists?

 

[Mindmaster]

Almost a derail, but I have been reading a lot on and of Machiavelli recently. He and Nietzsche would have to be in the top 10 in terms of misunderstood and misused historical figures...do you have any view on how or why they have been used as informative/inspirational to atheistic Satanists?

Mostly it is just cherry-picking from certain texts. I think it is probably incorrect to assume they are influenced by these fellows in a scholarly way, but many sentences were lifted verbatim and simply pasted into The Satanic Bible. Thus for example, the type of understanding one has of Nietzsche or Machiavelli from an academic view doesn't really align with the LaVey Satanist view.

Nietzsche in reality was very much an idealist or revolutionary thinker, and the bulk of that fights with LaVey's notions. (LaVey mostly espoused the realistic, or objective). They just robbed ideas from Thus Spake Zarathustra and called it day really... Ultimately, the problem is we know Freddie suffers a complete mental breakdown - when does it start? Visionary or quack? Hard to say... Some of his notions are brilliant, and others are certainly rolled in a coating of paint from his times, or seem plainly psychotic.

All of Machiavelli's work was just ignored and the book The Prince which was written in a style popular at the time (mirror of princes) of manuals given to rulers to learn how to lead. It was never published only released to a few of his friends, but it was eventually posthumously released -- it is uncertain if he would have ever done it himself. Machiavelli is basically living in exile from the Medici's after having been accused of conspiracy and tortured before writing any of his works. He doesn't return to politics for a long while, and that known it is likely that this written work was satire because writing directly in opposition to rulers at the time probably would be hazardous to your health. This work was also banned by the church because it encouraged vices and basically encouraged rulers to be atheists. But, anyway... a brief read in, and you can see it is nearly encouraging complete tyranny... It's just ridiculous, and it was probably just a, "haha book." Nearly anything a ruler could do to be mean, cruel, or petty was right up in the pages. It was Nicky just blowing off steam most likely. Deep book of inspiration? No... Something to take and source for your new Satanist philosophy? Very questionable, since I don't even think this author meant it the way it was written.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Mostly it is just cherry-picking from certain texts. I think it is probably incorrect to assume they are influenced by these fellows in a scholarly way, but many sentences were lifted verbatim and simply pasted into The Satanic Bible. Thus for example, the type of understanding one has of Nietzsche or Machiavelli from an academic view doesn't really align with the LaVey Satanist view.

Nietzsche in reality was very much an idealist or revolutionary thinker, and the bulk of that fights with LaVey's notions. (LaVey mostly espoused the realistic, or objective). They just robbed ideas from Thus Spake Zarathustra and called it day really... Ultimately, the problem is we know Freddie suffers a complete mental breakdown - when does it start? Visionary or quack? Hard to say... Some of his notions are brilliant, and others are certainly rolled in a coating of paint from his times, or seem plainly psychotic.

I find Nietzsche challenging, and have to admit some of his writing I find hard to follow. But I can follow it enough to know how superficially/badly some people cherry pick from it. Without context, his work loses all coherence.

All of Machiavelli's work was just ignored and the book The Prince which was written in a style popular at the time (mirror of princes) of manuals given to rulers to learn how to lead. It was never published only released to a few of his friends, but it was eventually posthumously released -- it is uncertain if he would have ever done it himself.

This is more familiar ground for me. He was in exile. Whilst he didn't write it for publication, as such, he was keen to get it in the hands of the Pope (perhaps amongst others) via a friend of his living in Rome. He expressed frustration that this friend made vague assurances about it, but as far as any records, it was never actually presented to the Pope at all. As to the why, it is more speculative, but likely either the friend did not think it would be well received, or thought the Machiavelli name was still one he didn't want association with.

Machiavelli is basically living in exile from the Medici's after having been accused of conspiracy and tortured before writing any of his works. He doesn't return to politics for a long while, and that known it is likely that this written work was satire because writing directly in opposition to rulers at the time probably would be hazardous to your health. This work was also banned by the church because it encouraged vices and basically encouraged rulers to be atheists.

I'd say 'pragmatists' rather than atheists. The idea of atheism wouldn't even have occurred to him, truly. The Pope's of the day were...well...let's just say they were quite concerned with earthly matters. You already know of the Medici's I guess, so you're probably pretty aware of all this already. Machievelli learnt from religious idealists earlier in his career (Savonarola in particular), and apart from the lessons he learnt directly, he learnt that idealism was useless without the ability to pragmatically install it and defend it.

He was a detail orientated bureaucrat and diplomat who (I think) was actually quite idealistic. But there was an element of 'ends justifies the means' to him.

But, anyway... a brief read in, and you can see it is nearly encouraging complete tyranny... It's just ridiculous, and it was probably just a, "haha book." Nearly anything a ruler could do to be mean, cruel, or petty was right up in the pages. It was Nicky just blowing off steam most likely. Deep book of inspiration? No... Something to take and source for your new Satanist philosophy? Very questionable, since I don't even think this author meant it the way it was written.

Hmm...I'm less sure of that. The times were ridiculously brutal by current standards. A city unable to defend itself was likely to not only be taken by enemies, but to have extreme punitive actions taken against it. This varied only occasionally, and one of the few times was the Florentian taking of Pisa. Was the non-sacking of the city an act of mercy? No...I don't think so. Moreso, I think it was a practical decision to limit the damage, and shorten the time taken to get the Port up and running to Florence's benefit.

To Machiavelli...I think...it was entirely possible to act either completely harshly or completely merciful in the short term in order to protect the overarching ideals he believed in. That...I guess...could be the message they took from the books, but that message is a complete parody unless there is the context of his position and the times he lived in brought in.

 

[Mindmaster]

To Machiavelli...I think...it was entirely possible to act either completely harshly or completely merciful in the short term in order to protect the overarching ideals he believed in. That...I guess...could be the message they took from the books, but that message is a complete parody unless there is the context of his position and the times he lived in brought in.

I don't really consider myself a scholar of these things, but I agree you on these comments. I really resent revisionism, and I guess that is the point where it offends me. We can make all the fellows of the past into anything we want because they are not here to stop us. Mostly, I get down to the fact that LaVey was just extremely lazy and it was easier to steal than invent. Nudge it here, and nudge it there... and wham... Satanists!

The tolerance for individual violence was also much greater in Nicky's time, so it was the expected way to deal with anything serious. None of that would float in these times, at least in the context of civilized nations, by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[DennisTate]

Hey guys,

So this is a weird format for me, but anyway I decided you know it is probably pretty rare for some you to have an opportunity to ask questions of someone who practices this religion.

I've been a practicing Theistic Satanist for over twenty years of my life, and basically that means:

1) Satan to me is the force of spiritual insurrection -- freedom from the tyrant gods, and slaves makers whom squander the power of creation from others. Satanism is seizing the fire from heaven, and reuniting ourselves with our true divine nature -- thus, we can achieve godhood ourselves. Satan also represents that ancient direct connection to the primal power we used to have at the dawn of civilization when shamans interacted directly with the forces of the cosmos. I know this doesn't jive with most common understandings of these things, but I practice mostly an inspired religion. (Aka, what I know is through a lot of ritual and/or meditation, or other direct research.)

2) I work with demons and other familiar spirits toward magical ends. Whether they be blessings or curses... Please keep any questions on this to factual stuff, as I really don't ascribe to the conventional morality much and I do not see things as dualism defines, but rather I see them as dualism-convenient.

3) I know great deal about the Western left-hand path, but try to keep questions to my beliefs. Those questions of general knowledge are either already on the net, or they are answered in the LHP DIR.

Other than this information, sky is the limit.. Ask away... You will be answered even if the answer is no answer.

Any semblance of these actions to the sin of your personal religion is merely coincidental.

Infernally Yours,

Mind

Do you think that I am an unwise Christian Universalist to be so convinced that Lucifer Satan..... the original Covering Cherub who led the revolt...... has evolved in his thinking over time and now is in a mind set much like Stanley Milgram Ph. D?

By this I mean..... Stanley Milgram Lucifer Satan.... most respects Satanists.... .who
leave Satanism and go Christian as has been done by former Satanist John Ramirez.

Milgram experiment - Wikipedia

The Milgram experiment on obedience to authority figures was a series of social psychology experiments conducted by Yale University psychologist Stanley Milgram. They measured the willingness of study participants, men from a diverse range of occupations with varying levels of education, to obey an authority figure who instructed them to perform acts conflicting with their personal conscience. Participants were led to believe that they were assisting an unrelated experiment, in which they had to administer electric shocks to a "learner". These fake electric shocks gradually increased to levels that would have been fatal had they been real.[2]

The experiment found, unexpectedly, that a very high proportion of people would fully obey the instructions, albeit reluctantly. Milgram first described his research in 1963 in an article published in the Journal of Abnormal and Social Psychology[1] and later discussed his findings in greater depth in his 1974 book, Obedience to Authority: An Experimental View.[3]

......
Actually..... I could be wrong about Satan being thrilled if some of his former students became Orthodox Christians.... I think he would prefer that they become Christian Universalist Warriors of the Rainbow.

Spirituality

Who goes to Heaven?

In the endbelieve it or not (sigh of relief) everyone gets to come home! I know some people will have a hard time hearing this. Especially those who believe that people who do evil deserve damnation. But you must understand; Heaven does not think as we do. Heaven is a place of ultimate LOVE! They want nothing more than to see us healed and restored should we have been damaged by evil. And to Heaven, those who are hurt by evil or even seen as Souls' who actually do it ... are all seen as individuals who are hurting in the worst wayand in need to repair. Also, do you honestly think Jesus would have asked us to forgive, serve and Love one another without hesitationif Heaven does not do that as well? Think about it.

Understand, God has a perfect system of justice. What comes around, always goes around. No one ever gets away with anything. I can promise you that! What we do not rectify and make right in this life, we will have to accomplish in the next one. The great Christian teacher from India, Paramahansa Yogananda, believes that Heaven does not usually allow us to remember former incarnations because of the challenging Karma we may have endured before. He says, there is no greater "hell" than the hell we create for ourselves though the perpetration of unloving behavior. The energy of such deeds always comes to find us in later lives.

When we have learned how to become individuals that base our entire existence and consciousness around manifesting LOVE, we then become capable of entering the domain of the higher Realms of Heaven while also understanding how Heaven thinks. In the Bible, it is written, "Our thoughts are not like God's thoughtsand our ways are not like God's ways." And without the energy of Love permeating our being fully, we will never even come close to thinking like God.

The bottom line is this: until we practice Love consistently, we will only go so far until we are made to incarnate somewhere in God's Super Universe again and again (unlimited times) until we finally learn our lesson. Until then, we will be allowed to come back home to various parts of the Realm temporarily, so that we can be refreshed, refurnished and taught by our elders, Soul Family and our guides. But once we are done, it is off to work we go!" (Christian Andreason, chapter 3)

 

[EtuMalku]

Do you think that I am an unwise Christian Universalist to be so convinced that Lucifer Satan..... the original Covering Cherub who led the revolt......

Lucifer is not Satan, Lucifer has nothing to do with the Abrahamic faith or scriptures.

 

[DennisTate]

Lucifer is not Satan, Lucifer has nothing to do with the Abrahamic faith or scriptures.

A near death experiencer was shown something about this that seems to explain a lot about the existence of evil, pain and suffering.... but I have to admit that the Abrahamic scriptures are very easy to misunderstand.

NDE accounts are a lot more easy to understand........
and they explain even the Abrahamic scriptures......

John 16:25

These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father."


Dr. Richard Eby's Near-Death Experience and the Second Coming of Christ

Jesus hesitated as I tried to capture the immensity of his explanations.

"You must understand, my son, that original creation mirrored the composition and perfection of Person-God. All creation vibrated in unison with us! There was total accord and harmony everywhere as the whole creation was resonating with and in God!

"Each separate thing or being thus carried out an appointed task in our scheme for the universe. A heaven-form of music resulted as even the stars sang in their appointed circuits. Here in paradise you are hearing these melodious vibrations directly upon your new mind, undistorted. On Earth you heard distorted sounds through the air waves. Throughout heaven the music flows from my throne, uninterrupted, undefiled, and peace-giving."

Jesus paused again.

"My book tells of the time when Lucifer's rebellion in heaven changed some things. He sought to usurp my Father's throne, assume his position as the most high God, and to rule the universe. For that blasphemy Lucifer was cast from heaven to Earth; in fact, I saw him fall as a bolt of lightning! In a tantrum of hate and rage over being deposed so fast he and his fallen angels disfigured our perfect Earth. It became void and uninhabitable. For punishment befitting his enemy of God, Lucifer was given a new name, Satan, since he was the self-appointed 'adversary' of the Almighty. Anything that God had made, Satan would attempt to destroy from then on. As Lucifer he had been created the highest angel about the throne, one of his assignments and talents being the chief musician in charge of worship and music. In his rebellious anger he set about destroying harmony on and in the Earth from then on. That is why the Earth where he operates now is out of harmony with God's other creations. In my book we call this disharmony 'sin', because it defies God's will that even the heavens declare the glory of God and the firmament show his handiwork.

"But be of good cheer, my son. The Father has permitted me to overcome Satan's world system of sin, and to destroy the works of Satan, and to re-establish righteousness in the hearts of my friends. Eventually in his chosen time he will restore all creation as it once was, in him!"

... but on the plus side.... .this does give us something to compare the original way of G-d to?!

 

[Mindmaster]

Do you think that I am an unwise Christian Universalist to be so convinced that Lucifer Satan..... the original Covering Cherub who led the revolt...... has evolved in his thinking over time and now is in a mind set much like Stanley Milgram Ph. D?

By this I mean..... Stanley Milgram Lucifer Satan.... most respects Satanists.... .who
leave Satanism and go Christian as has been done by former Satanist John Ramirez.

No more unreasonable than thinking a pagan Horned God is the devil of your Christianity or that a duality of the divine is necessary. (Casting everything as good and evil, rather than just being all equally divine.) Though, I guess a sun god/sky associated with beast and nature is directly in competition with Jehovah/Jesus, especially since his followers had no need of priests. I've pretty much thrown the entirety of Christian dogma into the trashcan on the basis that it is obviously a product of small-minded devious men rather than a destination of spiritual awakening. You can't be a religion of division, butchery, and cruelty and at the same time practice love and acceptance. Ultimately, it's not the fear of the devil or Satan that vexes you - it's the possibility that I might be right.

 

[DennisTate]

I sort of look at Crowley as the perfect example of what not to do with your life:

1) Born rich, waste all of your money on worthless things.

2) Bestiality.

3) Probably countless ******* children.

4) Chronic drug addictions.

5) Never completes Abramelin rite, decides it's better to go Jim Jones.

Well, the list goes on... as a model of a magicians life, he's about the worst example...

I agree.......
but I do believe that Messiah Yeshua - Jesus has some sort of a plan to lead him to salvation somehow............

Guy VanHorn-McLain:

" For I have built my new kingdom already! and positioned my Seraphym at the borders! For old ways weather away like water washed stone. My new promised land claims are all in your hearts who seek my kingdom or earthly borders crumble and fences errode. But my kingdom shall not errode and my borders grow broader. Seek you first My kingdom or else you pioneer in vain." This is a new word I bring from the Most High. The Ancient of days decrees this and so it shall be !!!!"


Guy VanHorn-McLain:
"I see the walls crumble and the gulf around the inner wall fills with cooled stone. Every light ever created by god will be redeemed by the act of His Son who he had sent to us. There should be no more attachment to the Idea that if we make mistakes we will end up in a Gulag. That is man's ways Not I Am's The Ancient of Days"


Guy VanHorn-McLain:
"The Daemon will shed his clothes of torment and be offered vestures of gold and light. And Be healed from the wounds created by the father of all lies who tricked each aND EVERY ONE OF THEM. tHE fALLEN ONES RISE AGAIN AND SERVE IN love"

If Messiah Yeshua - Jesus stated the following to a near death experiencer about Charles Manson......... then He must have similar long term plans for Crowley as well?!

My apologies that this is not written in a very politically correct manner though......


Sixwings and Sixwings11

Jesus spoke to me of Charlie Manson at this point. His loving tenderness in speaking of him quite shocked me. Jesus knew also that I had close relatives who were intimate with someone who arrived on the Tate crime scene; therefore, we heard the unpublished gruesome details within hours. I could not imagine anyone doing such atrocities to another and "have a chance in hell," of escaping hell. Now, hearing Jesus speaking of "My, Charlie"???? With such tenderness??? He said this to me, "You wonder at my love for him at how dear he is to me. It is because I know why he did what he did. I knew Charlie from the beginning. I was there when he was a child. I know the pain that his sin is rooted in. I know his pain."

I have read much on NDEs. I have read one widely publicized book that states that hell is reserved for the worst of people like Satanists. I agree with much of this author's writings, but having experienced an NDE myself, I also understand that we can make an assumption or misunderstand what we might only glimpse on the Other Side and how difficult it can be to integrate it through false worldly beliefs in the world. I also am fully aware that this that I write here is not going to be popular in the least. But I can't cover this up. Jesus did come for the whole world. That would include everyone. Charlie Manson was the leader of a Satanic Cult. There is a level in this darkness provided for healing, growth, and fears dissolving. Then entering into the next level. No "altar call" necessary. Jesus didn't have one altar call. He knows how people can be saved from themselves.

 

[EtuMalku]

A near death experiencer was shown something about this that seems to explain a lot about the existence of evil, pain and suffering.... but I have to admit that the Abrahamic scriptures are very easy to misunderstand.

Because of your acceptance of this NDE without actually understanding what NDE's are in Neurological sense, my initial conclusion is that you do not have an adequate grip on your self and subsequently a slanted grip on objective reality.

 

[DennisTate]

Because of your acceptance of this NDE without actually understanding what NDE's are in Neurological sense, my initial conclusion is that you do not have an adequate grip on your self and subsequently a slanted grip on objective reality.

You could be correct..........
but I know for sure that this planet and all seven billion humans on it.......
and also all those animals.......
are in big trouble... and we need to unite to save this planet.... because we depend on it for life.......


Mellen-Thomas Benedict's Near-Death Experience

I went over to the other side during my near-death experience with a lot of fears about toxic waste, nuclear missiles, the population explosion, the rainforest. I came back loving every single problem. I love nuclear waste. I love the mushroom cloud; this is the holiest mandala that we have manifested to date, as an archetype. It, more than any religion or philosophy on earth, brought us together all of a sudden, to a new level of consciousness. Knowing that maybe we can blow up the planet fifty times, or 500 times, we finally realize that maybe we are all here together now. For a period they had to keep setting off more bombs to get it in to us. Then we started saying, "we do not need this any more." Now we are actally in a safer world than we have ever been in, and it is going to get safer. So I came back from my near-death experience loving toxic waste, because it brought us together. These things are so big. As Peter Russell might say, these problems are now "soul size." Do we have soul size answers, YES!

The clearing of the rain forest will slow down, and in fifty years there will be more trees on the planet than in a long time. If you are into ecology, go for it; you are that part of the system that is becoming aware. Go for it with all your might, but do not be depressed. It is part of a larger thing. Earth is in the process of domesticating itself. It is never again going to be as wild a place as it once was. There will be great wild places, reserves where nature thrives. Gardening and reserves will be the thing in the future. Population increase is getting very close to the optimal range of energy to cause a shift in consciousness. That shift in consciousness will change politics, money, energy.

After dying, going through my near-death experience and coming back, I really respect life and death. In our DNA experiments we may have opened the door to a great secret. Soon we will be able to live as long as we want to live in this body. After living 150 years or so, there will be an intuitive soul sense that you will want to change channels. Living forever in one body is not as creative as reincarnation, as transferring energy in this fantastic vortex of energy that we are in. We are actually going to see the wisdom of life and death, and enjoy it. As it is now, we have already been alive forever. This body, that you are in, has been alive forever. It comes from an unending stream of life, going back to the Big Bang and beyond. This body gives life to the next life, in dense and subtle energy. This body has been alive forever already.

 

[Electra]

You sound like Crowley.
I hope your not as ugly inside as he was.

Perhaps it is necessary, as are all things.

Just someone trying to figure **** out like all of us,
sure did shake things up,
have you?